Toft ATB for new Project Studio?

[jw74tele]

Hey,
I read the increadibly long thread at gearslutz, and have concluded that the studio ive been planning for months shall include the Toft ATB. As i'm making my first full leap into DAW setup, i was ready to forgoe a mixer and "try to mix in the box," ...until i JUST read about the ATB.

Alan, Malcolm & CO- I'm thrilled to envision running my stems out to the ATB, using the Eq's, inserts, Circuitry, warmth and solidity... mixing like a human!

BUT, i'm not sure about the connectivity situation.

System Core;
1.67 ghz PWRBook running DP
Tascam FW1884
Meek Twin Q (old one- no digital outputs)

Looking at getting:
Focusrite ISA428 w/dig card (allow Twin Q A/D conversion)
Toft ATB 16ch
16 A/D conversion (type?)

Connectivity was easy before the Toft ATB came into the picture.

HOW DO I CONNECT THIS SETUP?
Toft has dig card option- firewire 10 in 10 out
Fw1884 has two fire ports. REAR PIC here- http://www.tascam.com/Products/FW-1884/fw1884_rear.jpg

Here's what i was thinking-
inputs- i would run the Twin Q into the ISA428, Adat out to FW1884, and 8 Toft atb pres line in to FW1884.... 16 pres firewire to pwrbook.
outputs- to 16 channel a/d to toft ????????? Toft dig card??????

I'm not sure about the firewire/output situation?
Would someone PLEASE illuminate me as to how i can work the ATB into my studio plans?
Options/Variations to this setup?

Please note: Tascam FW1884 was purchased w/ knowing i would eventually buy better pre's, converters, clock. It was a stragegy to allow me the construction costs, rackgear, mics, acoustic treatment ect. So please dont hesitate to suggest options that would reduce the FW1884 to only a DAW controller.

thanks,
josh

[Alan Hyatt]

Josh,

We are going to put up a photo of the digital card so you can see more of what it is. I will look into this Tascam unit's firwire options and get back to you. I do think you will end up using the pres on the ATB after you try them, but that is not to say don't buy the Focusright... All I am saying is you may want to wait to get it...

[Nik Keefe]

Firstly - don't panic about that Tascam. You still have transport control functions (i.e. you don't have to click the mouse to start recording) and a 4x4 MIDI interface, plus you can add a clock later if you want to upgrade that element. So you haven't wasted your money!

You will take 8 direct outs from the Toft into the 8 line inputs on the Tascame. And you will take 8 outputs from the Tascam into the corresponding 8 monitor inputs on the Toft. Then it's just about working out the ADAT side for the other 8 each way. The Tascam will take eight ins and eight outs on ADAT lightpipe, so you just need to find a way of getting eight more of your outputs turned into ADAT and vice versa. I don't know whether or not the Toft digi card will be doing that.

You can't plug the firewire connection from the Toft into the Tascam - as far as I know it's not a firewire hub, it's for daisychaining other Tascam interfaces to expand your setup with their hardware.

It all depends how you work, of course. Some people will want the eight group outputs to be their second bank of eight channels into their DAW ... I personally usually end up working with direct outs per channel, because then I don't get so confused with dealing with the corresponding tape returns on each inline channel. Have you had inline monitoring desks before? If so, you'll already know how you prefer to arrange things. Don't be afraid to use your computer as a glorified hard disk recorder and wave editor. In due course you will have other uses for it too, but mixing out of the box is definitely worth doing too. :)

Nik

[jw74tele]

Nik and Alan- thanks for the input-

I've joined the pilot program on faith, and am really excited about the Toft, but am unable to move forward until i have all this sorted out- i passed on an ISA428 w/dig outputs today for a very good price because it would be foolish until i understand the system connections.

You will take 8 direct outs from the Toft into the 8 line inputs on the Tascame. And you will take 8 outputs from the Tascam into the corresponding 8 monitor inputs on the Toft

im with you on this

The Tascam will take eight ins and eight outs on ADAT lightpipe, so you just need to find a way of getting eight more of your outputs turned into ADAT and vice versa. I don't know whether or not the Toft digi card will be doing that.

Can't i send 8 channels from the Toft on ADAT to the Tascam? Send 8 channels from Tascam to Toft for returns?
Are you saying you aren't sure what the Toft digi cards capabilities are, or saying you're you don't know how it will work in my setup.
Does the Toft digi card have adcat in and out, or dual Adat out at 96k.

You can't plug the firewire connection from the Toft into the Tascam - as far as I know it's not a firewire hub, it's for daisychaining other Tascam interfaces to expand your setup with their hardware.

i'm looking but still not sure... i know it's for fader expansion, but can't find definative info regarding chaining.

It all depends how you work, of course. Some people will want the eight group outputs to be their second bank of eight channels into their DAW ... I personally usually end up working with direct outs per channel, because then I don't get so confused with dealing with the corresponding tape returns on each inline channel. Have you had inline monitoring desks before? If so, you'll already know how you prefer to arrange things. Don't be afraid to use your computer as a glorified hard disk recorder and wave editor. In due course you will have other uses for it too, but mixing out of the box is definitely worth doing too

I'm not clear on inline function, previous studio was Mackie HDR and Mackie
32x8. I plan on using my DAW as you describe but as using effects(pwrcore), and some automation functions.

We are going to put up a photo of the digital card so you can see more of what it is. I will look into this Tascam unit's firwire options and get back to you. I do think you will end up using the pres on the ATB after you try them, but that is not to say don't buy the Focusright... All I am saying is you may want to wait to get it...

Alan, i would love any clarification on the Digi card functions(adat in and out, or dual out?). I take your word that the pres are good, although there have been mixed opinions about how good the ATC2 pres are. Are they the same design?

Thanks guys for your help and open minded approach in the development the the Toft ATB, it was a big incentive to invest in your company.
thanks,
josh

[Nik Keefe]

If the Toft digi i/o card has a couple of ADATs each way then you're sorted. If not, then you'd need to buy something like a couple of Behringer ADA8000s to convert the line signals into a group of ADAT. An even better way is to pick up a MOTU 2408 mkII unit second hand, the rack unit functions as a standalone conversion unit, so you can link the clocks of that and your Tascam together and have MOTU rather than Behringer conversion! :)

So inline monitoring basically means there's two sides two each channel strip as you look at it. There's the standard 'line channel' which has your normal mic, line, insert and direct out, this then goes through the preamp at the top and then through the EQ and Aux sends and down to the long-throw fader. There's also a 'tape return' or 'monitor channel' which is one of the signals coming from your tape/HDR/DAW. This usually has a trim pot and a pan pot somewhere on the channel strip (near the bottom on the Toft I think). This means you can listen to your recordings without having to repatch all your inputs for outputs, or needing twice as many channels (32 channels for a setup with 16 ins and 16 outs).

Where it gets really clever is that you can flip the two sides of the channel with the press of a button and so get access to the EQ and 100mm fader on mixdown.

Does that help?

[jw74tele]

If the Toft digi i/o card has a couple of ADATs each way then you're sorted

This really is the question! I've looked around, but it's not been specified as to whether or not the Toft dig card is Adat in, AND Adat out.

Alan-
Could you please comment on this.
When will the dig card be available?

Nik-
Thanks for the inline monitoring explanation- thats how i used my Mackie board.
As soon as the dig card info is known, i can consider conversion options. I'm interested in quality conversion(not the likes of Behringer), and am realizing that the Tascam may not be the best suited unit to work w/the Toft. The Toft will be at the center of my studio- as a front end, and mixing/summing. Something like the Motu 24 i/o might be a good option.

I found this guy talking about how he might use his Toft, and like how he's monitoring;
i could easily run 16 channels out from my DAW (6 analog, 10 digital with Yamaha i88x) into this Console, run the mains back into the DAW via spdif digital for final recording, and out the remaining 2 analog outs on the i88x for monitoring as i prefer to monitor from the recorder rather than the mixer. Latency might be a concern, but i'll regain lost latency from no longer using all these damn EQ plugins ;)

Thanks for the ideas- it does help, and is much appreciated.
josh

[jw74tele]

Alan-
I read through some old posts and found you saying this:
As for the Digital Outputs:
2 Firewire connectors, SPDIF (phono and optical), ADAT, Word Clock In/Out, MIDI I/O, Sample Rate 44K - 192k (except ADAT

Not sure if other folks need the same clarification as myself, but...
2 firewire- one for 10 in and one for 10 out?
Adat- same question as previously posted.

Unable to reach anyone at PMI this weekend, will call tomorrow and get the lowdown. I'm considering the 24 channel, rather than the 16, hope it's possible to make that change if desired.

I did some research on the pre's- thanks for the advice about waiting on the ISA428. If Tony Visconti raves about the pres, i'm sure i'll be satisfied. You guys rock... i've never believed in a product like this before, and i've never heard it. http://www.pmiaudio.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=648#

take care,
josh

[Alan Hyatt]

Alan-
I read through some old posts and found you saying this:
As for the Digital Outputs:
2 Firewire connectors, SPDIF (phono and optical), ADAT, Word Clock In/Out, MIDI I/O, Sample Rate 44K - 192k (except ADAT

Not sure if other folks need the same clarification as myself, but...
2 firewire- one for 10 in and one for 10 out?
Adat- same question as previously posted.

Unable to reach anyone at PMI this weekend, will call tomorrow and get the lowdown. I'm considering the 24 channel, rather than the 16, hope it's possible to make that change if desired.

I did some research on the pre's- thanks for the advice about waiting on the ISA428. If Tony Visconti raves about the pres, i'm sure i'll be satisfied. You guys rock... i've never believed in a product like this before, and i've never heard it. http://www.pmiaudio.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=648#

take care,
josh

Josh,

Yes, it is 10 in, 10 out throught the firewire. 8 in, 8 out throught the ADAT, and then you still have the SPDIF for 2 in, 2 out. Firewire is capable of more, but then you need more A/D converters which adds a good deal more money to the card. So for now, 10 I/O is all it can do...
http://www.toftaudio.com/images/toftfirewire_module_2.jpg

[Nik Keefe]

Sorted. I'd just use it for the ADAT if I were you, Josh. No sense confusing your PC by having two separate interfaces!!! :)

[jw74tele]

Nik,
okay hows this;

toft direct out to tascam line in 1-8
toft adat out to tascam adat in

tascam firewire powerbook for 18in/18out

tascam analog out 1-8 to monitor in (channels 1-8 or 9-16)
tascam adat out to Toft adat in (channels?)

toft L/R out to Presonus Central Station(monitoring unit) to monitors
Toft spidif out to tascam spidif in to powerbook for 2 tr recording

Routing corrections/advice.

I know firewire returns to subgroups AND channel 1-8, BUT... where are the Adat ins routed.?

Alan-
when is approx release date for dig card?

thanks guys,
josh

[Nik Keefe]

I think the ADAT might be routed off a choice of either the first 8 channels or the 8 subgroups. In which case you'd probably be taking the direct outs of channels 9-16 to the analog inputs of the Tascam. That's my guess, but you'll have to wait for Alan to confirm that! :)

[jw74tele]

Thanks for all the help Nik, i really appreciate it. Sounds like everything should work out nicely between the tascam and toft atb. I recieved my confirmation as a "pilot" for a 24ch. Sweeeeet!

If you'd like to take a look at my studio plans, i recently posted at gearslutz-
http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?p=519061#post519061
Any input/advice welcome.

take care,
josh :)

[Nik Keefe]

Dan Richards and Fletcher both really know their stuff so I would grab on tight to any advice you get from them. Fletcher in particular can be brief in his comments but they are almost always very insightful.

I wouldn't see fit to make any suggestions myself until they have finished! :)

[Reid Mason]

Dan Richards and Fletcher both really know their stuff so I would grab on tight to any advice you get from them. Fletcher in particular can be brief in his comments but they are almost always very insightful.

I wouldn't see fit to make any suggestions myself until they have finished! :)

You're right about Fletcher. He's a "no BS" kind of guy. Tell's it like he sees it, with no sugar coating. The kind of guy this world could use more of. Less political correctness and more straight up truth!

[BubblePuppy]

Does anyone see a value in a line level only version of this console.
I learned on a 80B and loved the EQ section and the sound of the board.
Could never afford one so I have used a TAC Scorpian for years but haven't used the mic pres for 15yrs.
I have a cache of custom pres for tracking to a Anolog tape machine, as a keyboard/songwriter I work out of a small area so tracking real drums or a band is not possible. Not to mention the cost of mics for a great drum sound.
I would love to see a line only version and what ever savings put in to better Buss summing and headroom performance and grounding.
Just checking here for everyones thoughts on this given the boutique offerings of different flavors of mic pres available these days.
API/A-range (coming soon from Malcom)/BAE/Vintech/Chandler.

peace,love,dove!


"Trust Your Ears Not The Gear"

[OneRoomStudios]

I agree, a line level board would be great. I almost never use the pre's on a board anyways. When I tracked through a Trident 80B on a recent project, I almost always ran though API's, Great Rivers, or some other pre straight into PT, then I used the board to monitor back and get a rough mix going. That way when it came time to mix, I was already halfway done. Not to say that the 80B pre's aren't any good, to the contrary they can be great on some things, but I just prefer my other options for pres. The Trident EQ's however, are my favorite EQ's out of all the EQ's I've used (API, SSL, Vally People, Great River, GML), and the board just has a great sound to it.

So yes, a line-level version would be awesome.

[Alan Hyatt]

SONY

Soon, only not yet!