Group Buys...Anyone Interested? [Archive]

Alan Hyatt

05-09-2009, 07:43 PM

tarnationsauce

05-09-2009, 08:55 PM

Uhh this sounds like a no-brainer.
I'd love to take part in something like this.

How about compressors? Maybe something LA2A or SSL inspired?

[edit] I made a post on Prodigy Pro so maybe some of the guys there will be interested. A bunch of them took part in the TnC GB.

Alan Hyatt

05-09-2009, 09:19 PM

We can do what ever we want to do. If a specific type of unit or microphone can be decided on, and as long as there are enough pre-order comittments(no money up front), we would start a design or test on an existing unit, provided we can find something already out there that fits the bill and passes my designers expectations.

Once all that happened and the unit was designed and made readied, then we would take the money and push the button on production, which would take some 120 days max to build and get into our warehouses. So it could take a while from conception for electronics to happen unless we find a completed unit that passes our requirements.

Microphones are easy, they are already available by many factories that build for Cascade, Avant, Nady, Apex and more, so a buy can happen quick with microphones. All we need are photos of a mic everyone wants to buy, we can do the rest. Shipping everything is a matter of days to complete, as long as each one is paid.

So the question will be, is there enough people who still want to do this? That will be answered soon enough I guess based on the response here, and on Gearslutz.

tarnationsauce

05-10-2009, 03:27 AM

I wonder if China can make a decent 500 series rack? And maybe 500 series modules?

Alan Hyatt

05-10-2009, 10:02 AM

They could make clones....but anything new would have to be designed.

Ausrock

05-11-2009, 07:15 AM

Hey Alan,

I haven't had broadband or emails available for a while ( a long story), so.................... 1) I haven't bothered to contact you and 2) I only just picked up on you going public with the GB idea..............but anyways, my last message to you, opting out of any involvement has kind of become obsolete so...............in other words, I'm interested in being "involved" should this go further.

ChrisO

Keystone

05-11-2009, 10:16 PM

I'm very interested.
Read your post in Gearslutz and would enjoy being involved in another group buy.

Pultek pre
1176
RCA 77 and 44

Alan Hyatt

05-11-2009, 10:30 PM

Hopefully, more guys will show interest and find a product that the people want. For now, the door is open so lets see what we can do.

Budgetmc

05-11-2009, 11:32 PM

Hmmmmm... I'll spend some time looking around and see if I can come back with some input for possible mic choices.

chris carter

05-12-2009, 12:05 AM

Definitely interested. The thing I really needed were the preamps from the TNC buy so there's nothing really pressing on my list at the moment... but I'm sure I'll think of something :)

seavote

05-12-2009, 01:18 AM

i'd be interested in a ribbon mic. finest quality ribbon and best quality control available in china. doesnt have to be dirt cheap as long as i get some bang for my buck

SemolinaPilchard

05-12-2009, 01:44 AM

Another group buy...Oh Boy. I survived the TnC fiasco without getting too freaked out or whinny. I am a fairly patient person. One of my pres is getting repaired/upgraded and the other sits semi-functional in my studio. Just following the conversations among people who are re-engineering the things has been heap big educational to me.

I'd be up for a 1176 type comp or maybe some EQ stuff, graphic or parametric.

Also, I'd rather pay more for better gear than pay the least amount for low end stuff. I would like to have some units that actually work out of the box and sound good without any mods.

I am always interested in ribbons and in finding the best U-87 knockoff available.

Keep us posted.

Doug

crazydoc

05-12-2009, 03:09 AM

I'm still waiting for that Stephen Paul mic. :) Maybe China can make it.

anguswoodhead

05-12-2009, 03:41 AM

Yep - I'm keen.
Compressors.
1176 style
Fairchild valve style - lol
Mic Pre's
Neve style
Valve V72 or V76 style
Valve mics (U47, 251, C12) / U87 style mic / Ribbons.
etc.
etc.

BigTom

05-12-2009, 03:56 AM

How about a nice lush reverb unit?

Keystone

05-12-2009, 04:24 AM

Preamps and microphones.
The dominating gear topic in about every recording forum out there.
Preamps with clean gain and headroom to support a ribbon mic and microphones loosely modeled after proven classic designs.
Compressors are a lusty fascination with many so a killer preamp with an invisible but subtley colored limiting comp could be quite a winner.
Build them with tubes so the everyone can swap them out for personal ideas of vintage flavor.
Single channel.
A really good or as best can be budget minded single channel limiting preamp.
Hi Z input taylored to bass guitar which is probably the most universally D/I recorded string instrument out there.
A large VU meter switchable from input to output.
Full rack space.
No goofey graphics.
No goofey leds.
No goofey switches.
Generic readable color scheme.
A brick with power.

Keystone

05-12-2009, 04:39 AM

I also would like to add I am not interested in the lowest dollar items.
I would not mind paying more at all if within reason.
Reason being if it is too expensive then I would opt for a name brand which I would think to be understandable.
The fun part will be as this startup of a "professional" group buy comes to fruition what pieces will be offered.
I would assume as this gains momentum there will have to be a poll of most wanted gear from those wishing to participate.
And then there will be feasibilty and monetary decisions.
Personally just tossing my hat into this and possibly getting a piece of gear taylor made or specifically sourced for those who wish to join in is a pretty enjoyable way to spend the summer.......and in the end get some "not off the rack" gear at a reasonable price.

Alan Hyatt

05-12-2009, 08:05 AM

I am not looking to offer the cheapest goods. We did get an inexpensive Ribbon mic which we modified, used a Cinemag Transformer and it is killer. Now you will not get that for $55.00. The transformer cost $75.00! So we can do this anyway you guys want.

Now some DIY guys may want the cheap stuff so they can mess around. Others may want top notch sounding gear at a deal. I leave all of this up to you guys. To me, this Group Buy is your deal. I am facilitating the deal. You all will have to decide what the product will be. Perhaps you should elect someone you all know and trust to act as a moderator of sorts to funnel down the ideas for a product.

If you leave it up to me I will do that, but as I said before. A product has to be selected and we have to be able to reach good quantity to make it work, even if it costs more for a quality product. The numbers have to be there.

Alan Hyatt

05-12-2009, 08:17 AM

I'm still waiting for that Stephen Paul mic. :) Maybe China can make it.

Nice try Doc....You know we can't do that, and China can't do it anyway...

Alan Hyatt

05-12-2009, 08:19 AM

How about a nice lush reverb unit?

What type...Spring, Plate, DSP?

BigTom

05-12-2009, 02:13 PM

I'm thinking plate but I've never used a good reverb. I've only heard super lush verbs like Lexicon? and some of the others that cost more than most home studios can afford.

I'm sure there are people here that know more about these than I do and I would respect their opinions.

Paul G

05-12-2009, 02:59 PM

I'd be interested in seeing where this goes. The guys over at PSW are doing a mod for the TNC 1200 mic. I've been trying to find one with no luck. Some mic that would work with that mod would get my vote. Great sounding tube or FET mic would be good as well.

I'm going to do the Steve Hogan upgrade to my 73 when it's available. If this works, I'll be set for pres for a while. Thanks Alan.

Paul

cnixon

05-13-2009, 09:43 PM

Group buys are a lot of fun, with all the speculation about the sound and quality of the products, short tempers by some, and general excited antipication. With that said, I will throw my hat into the ring. I would be more interested in some type of compressors, but whatever the group determines I would go along with. Even if I do not like it once it arrives, someone will buy it for what I paid. Its a win - win situation if you ask me.

Charlie

Nakatira

05-14-2009, 02:35 AM

I`d be keen on some pre`s and mikes

stettoman

05-14-2009, 02:48 PM

I too would be wild for a quality ribbon mic. Been waiting for the SP, but it feels like somebody turned the burner down on that...

...A new LD vocal condensor would make my tail wag too...

Alan Hyatt

05-14-2009, 05:24 PM

I too would be wild for a quality ribbon mic. Been waiting for the SP, but it feels like somebody turned the burner down on that...

...A new LD vocal condensor would make my tail wag too...

SP is releasing two Ribbon mics, and Joemeek is releasing one as well....

stettoman

05-14-2009, 06:56 PM

Well heck Alan, maybe I'll wait...

I'm moving my small operation in a 24' X 24' cellar environment into a much better room; Isolated, 15' X 20', dedicated to recording instead of furnace, main drain, storage, spiders, insane moisture levels in the summer. I won't know how to act.

I've had a wish list for some time (OK, I'll ALWAYS have a wish list), but was waiting til after the move to make any acquisitions. A couple new mics, including a ribbon and a new vox mic is at the top. I've had really good experiences with the SP and Meek stuff, but I sure wish there were an audition room around here, like a GC.

OK, so you can't do your own gear in a group buy...What are the odds of nabbing some AKG 414s? (yeah, I've got a smirk on my face)

Alan Hyatt

05-14-2009, 10:08 PM

I am flying to Beijing on March 28th for the Palm Show, and then spend some time with several factories.

I will be at the factory that made the Group Buy mic pre/EQ....

tarnationsauce

05-14-2009, 11:30 PM

phonzadellika on GearSlutz made a great suggestion of a 4-ch pre using the ACMP73's preamp portion. (no EQ) Keep It Simple!
Just so long as they fix the gain switch POP and fix thegain switch resistor values. And maybe an external pwr supply.

I think the main thing is to keep things simple. Less things to go wrong.

An SSL bus comp is simple, an 1176 is also pretty simple. Hardest part would be finding suitable parts. Like the THAT IC's for the SSL.

Fab4ever

05-15-2009, 12:43 AM

I'm in Alan. My two-cent suggestions:

* spring reverb
* tube compressor/limiter ... not expecting a Fairchild, but what a hoot if it could offer just a scintilla of that flavor. Or flavour, if you please.

Fab

SemolinaPilchard

05-15-2009, 01:31 AM

"I am flying to Beijing on MARCH 28th for the Palm Show, and then spend some time with several factories."

So I guess you had one of the factories make you a time machine....I think I would like one also. Is there a vintage model w/tubes?

Leslie Hammond

05-15-2009, 02:19 AM

Alan,
Thanks for your offer to facilitate a "safe" group buy!

What I would like to purchase in a group buy are high quality clones of studio staples. Put in the $100 transformer.

Here are the clones I would most like to purchase (in order of preference):

33609
LA2A
V72
KM 84

I'd also love an 8 channel lightpipe converter in the Lavry/ Mytek/Apogee vicinity.

Other clones I'd buy:

Curvebender
Pultec
670
1178
Helios Preamp/EQ
1272s (4 to a rackspace)

As for mics... how about mics that nobody wants to mod.

Would everyone please realize and agree that we can all live happily ever after with the purchase of a cloned Neve 33609 bus compressor.

Thanks,
LH

We can do what ever we want to do. If a specific type of unit or microphone can be decided on, and as long as there are enough pre-order comittments(no money up front), we would start a design or test on an existing unit, provided we can find something already out there that fits the bill and passes my designers expectations.

Once all that happened and the unit was designed and made readied, then we would take the money and push the button on production, which would take some 120 days max to build and get into our warehouses. So it could take a while from conception for electronics to happen unless we find a completed unit that passes our requirements.

Microphones are easy, they are already available by many factories that build for Cascade, Avant, Nady, Apex and more, so a buy can happen quick with microphones. All we need are photos of a mic everyone wants to buy, we can do the rest. Shipping everything is a matter of days to complete, as long as each one is paid.

So the question will be, is there enough people who still want to do this? That will be answered soon enough I guess based on the response here, and on Gearslutz.

anguswoodhead

05-15-2009, 05:35 AM

I like the 4 x 1272 clones in a rack space idea.
Also the 33609 would be sweet.
1176 - yep.
Stereo pair of quality valve pultec style eq's with mids - yeah baby.
670-of course - who wouldn't want that - lol.

anguswoodhead

05-15-2009, 05:44 AM

Just so you know guys - Ben from Bees Neez is doing a killer conversion to the TNC 1200 valve LDC - highly recommended.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4187646-post1944.html

Ausrock

05-17-2009, 05:55 AM

Angus,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but FFS mate, the way you're dropping Ben's services every bloody chance you get, one could be forgiven for thinking you're getting kick-backs............I have absolutely no doubt that he's doing excellent work but c'mon, give us a breather.

Re the GB ideas........we'd all like reasonably priced "clones" of certain gear but we have to keep it within the realms of practical possibilities..........over the months of the last (infamous) GB, the type of things that I've seen people suggesting are a bare bones but quality 2 and/or 4 channel pre and a quality compressor..............the 1176, LA2A and SSL style are always suggested..........are they a viable possibility, only Alan can answer that.

The fact is, that Alan needs to narrow the field and sensible input will help that happen.

Cheers,

ChrisO

Alan Hyatt

05-18-2009, 05:51 AM

I agree, I do need to narrow the field. I am back in the office shortly and then heading off to China. I am back on the 4th of June and as soon as I can after that, I will post photo's of a few units that I will offer.

Then, we will see where this leads....

anguswoodhead

05-18-2009, 12:58 PM

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but FFS mate, the way you're dropping Ben's services every bloody chance you get, one could be forgiven for thinking you're getting kick-backs............I have absolutely no doubt that he's doing excellent work but c'mon, give us a breather.
ChrisO

Just lettin' people know mate - some are glad to hear about it and have pm'ed me for more info.
Go figure - freedom of speech and all that.
It's not like we weren't talking about the mic or anything before I chose to mention it.

Keystone

05-19-2009, 02:24 PM

Narrowing the field of choices is a great idea.
A list of units that could be offered if demand showed cost effectiveness.
Again solid preamps and compressors seem to be sought after product.
Especially now with the whole home recording world rediscovering ribbon microphones.
I'm looking forward to this GB.

Nik Keefe

05-26-2009, 01:07 PM

I have to say that this deal interests me rather a lot!

I'll keep an eye on how it shapes up but I could conceivably be in for a few bits. Glad to see it happening and look forward to it being done well! :)

anguswoodhead

05-27-2009, 02:38 AM

Hi guys
Just letting you know that I have tallied the votes from this thread so far but won't be checking back here again (for votes anyway).

To add your vote do it at http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/392826-alan-hyatt-organized-group-buy-thread.html

Cheers,
Angus

montanasan

05-27-2009, 11:36 PM

I'd like to say I'm officially in. I'm open minded as to what may become available but am keen to show support.

Ausrock

05-28-2009, 05:21 AM

I'd like to say I'm officially in. I'm open minded as to what may become available but am keen to show support.

Sorry, but I find this a complete turnaround from someone who was only too happy to piss in Alan's direction in Chance's group buy thread 12 months ago.

pohaku

05-28-2009, 05:31 AM

I'm interested. Like everyone else, some decent comp clones would be of interest 1176, la2a, la3a. I also would be interested in a decent 2 channel EQ - something on the order of a clone of a GR or Millennia unit. A 500 form lunch box or rack with a good power supply would also be nice.

montanasan

05-28-2009, 08:26 AM

Sorry, but I find this a complete turnaround from someone who was only too happy to piss in Alan's direction in Chance's group buy thread 12 months ago.
Explain yourself please. What's with all the aggressive attitude?

Ausrock

05-28-2009, 09:36 AM

Explain yourself please. What's with all the aggressive attitude?

Aggressive?......................The explanation...........post #497 on this page...... http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/187097-acmp-73-neve-73-clone-17.html

Mate, Alan copped so much crap in that thread (and elsewhere) and time has proven that he was essentially correct in his opinions of the group buy pres and I've yet to see any of those who were taking shots at him come back and offer even a hint of an apology. Add to that the abusive PMs I received just because I was onside with him and you may just start to understand why I'm a bit touchy.

mylithra

05-28-2009, 11:48 AM

Id be down for this. Just posting to be kept up with on this.

squeegee

05-29-2009, 02:13 AM

I'm down. Count me in.

Alan Hyatt

05-29-2009, 10:36 AM

Hey guys,

Many have taken shots at me over this thing about Chance. I never came back to tell anyone, "I told you so", and I am not looking for apologies. People defended Chance and believed all his claims to have been the designer of the goods, but who cares? He has been found out, the truth has been exposed and I would be surprised if he can conjure up any support for another Group Buy.

So, I have stepped in to show that it can be done the right way.

Ok so I landed in Beijing two hours ago.

Some of you are asking for some high end stuff. China cannot do that unless they have build files, and then you need people to debug the gear. Don't look for V76's, VAC Rac or real sounding Neve gear. To do that, you need to build them the way they were built and use the same components. So for anyone expecting to see high end gear here...it is not going to happen.

I am sure I will find all kinds of microphones..Tube, Solid State, transformer, Ribbon, Large and small diaphragms. All of which can be modified as a DIY project, but if you want a U47, don't expect it to come from China. You can get a close sonic resemblance, but these are not Neumann capsules.

I expect to find mic/pres, EQ's, compressors and other stuff, but all will be what you all have bought before on these Group Buys, only I will make sure it will work.

If you want higher end stuff, as I said, we can design that, but you will pay a price for it and without a commitment to support a decent quantity order, it is not worth doing.

So if you want more inexpensive gear that has a warranty, we can do that. I will post photo's soon.

chris carter

05-30-2009, 05:13 AM

Rather than take requests from us and search for that gear in China, I think a better approach is for you to gather up the gear that you feel good about and then present those options to us.

Ausrock

05-30-2009, 05:06 PM

I'm sure some (or maybe a lot of ) people aren't really reading what Alan has been saying regarding the likelyhood of finding "off the shelf" cheap, high end gear in China, sure, the request was made for suggestions but I think a lot of gear on the wish list (at G/slutz) has become a bit unrealistic.

To my knowledge, the only Group Buy that had rack gear was Chance's recent exercise with the three (now infamous) preamps..........this would mean that there is an opportunity for comps, EQs and the like should Alan feel they are suitable.

ChrisO

stettoman

05-30-2009, 06:18 PM

Hey BTW, thanks Alan, this is the first purchase of this type I've felt comfortable enough to be involved with...Though I still don't mind waiting for a SP or Meek ribbon...

I do have substantial room for expansion in my own mic cab, so don't rule out anything in that category you find interesting.

Alan Hyatt

05-31-2009, 05:18 AM

Met a few mic companies today. It is really clear what brands out there are using these factories to build their goods and how blatant these companies are just picking them out of the catalogs and claiming credit for them. Amazing! So if you want APEX, Avantone, and companies like that, I have the catalogs so we can buy them very cheap if we can get some quantity.

Lots of ribbons, tubes, and more. I will get the photos I took up on the web and post the address. Meet tomorrow morning to see if we can bring you some comps....

Had a good meeting with a company that can do reasonable clones, but they will not be dirt cheap to do because to do a real clone, the components needed cost money, but I am optimistic that LA2A's, 1176 and SSL Buss comps can be done if you guys are willing to dish out more cash!

matti

05-31-2009, 07:07 AM

I´m hearing you!

Regards

Matti

stettoman

05-31-2009, 01:42 PM

Heh, I guess that'll depend on your definition of "more cash". I'm closing on a new house this week and, depending on what Her Royal Highness has in mind for peripheral acquisitions (new stove, for example), "more cash" may not be something I have much of...

As far as comps go, I'd be in with that as well...I have onboard comp algorithms in my gear, but I have an old-world love for rack-mounted hands-on-the-dial peripherals...My rack comp at the moment is a Behringer, full of bells and whistles that seem to only add noise to my signal path. It works just fine for live work but I'm loathe to insert it to a vocal, or even bass...

Simpler might be better in my regard...I have an old, old, old Rocktron that has three knobs, one of which is output, it still has the best (and quietest) overall effect of any I've owned...

slowjett

06-01-2009, 05:54 AM

I'd really be interested in doing a buy on a comp and a mic. I'd also like to know what cost range would be on the comps... I'm interested, buts its probably got to be quite a bit less than used pricing on an established clone model to get me excited. :) Also will this be a speedier turnaround than the chance GB? That was like watching molasses run down empire state building in January.

Paul G

06-01-2009, 01:58 PM

Also will this be a speedier turnaround than the chance GB? That was like watching molasses run down empire state building in January. LOL That it was!

Alan Hyatt

06-06-2009, 06:44 PM

Well the Gearslutz thread was shut down by Dr. Delta, so I will continue it here.

Once again, I think many people are looking to get the impossible. I want a Ferrari for $500.00 as well, but it ain't gonna happen without it not being fast or dependable. Now I can get a Ferrari Kit Car for much less

http://www.kitcars.com/Classifieds/AdDetails.asp?classified_id=21578

At the end of the day, it will still be a 1980 Corvette body and motor. As for LA2A's, 1176's and all the other high end gear everyone seems to want, well you can get it, but not for that price. Even if you get them with cheap components, then you have to spend $500.00 to beef it up, so better of spending the $1K now for something good.

I will keep looking for things, but MICS are easy guys, I can get you what ever you want. Electronics come with a whole lot of baggage as cheap is cheap and then it just becomes another unit you do not use, and to get something you will use all the time, well that will cost more to do.

Paul G

06-06-2009, 07:56 PM

Thanks Alan, I'll keep watching this thread.

Paul

SemolinaPilchard

06-06-2009, 08:18 PM

OK...Electronics probably won't happen, at least in this round. It is not worth it to anyone to buy crap gear. Maybe down the road Mr. H will find some good bang-for-the-buck stuff. But it doesn't seem like he is interested in electronics right now.

Let's move on and keep the discussion about mics alive. Alan, please show us some more microphones. You seem to have a good sense about this stuff. In your opinion, what mics are worth looking at? Toss a few out there and we will give you feedback (this I am sure of!!!).

Thanks for your effort and time.

Mr Pilchard

matti

06-07-2009, 12:09 AM

I was hoping you would show us what is available on the electronics side also?

Matti

Ausrock

06-07-2009, 02:02 AM

As for LA2A's, 1176's and all the other high end gear everyone seems to want, well you can get it, but not for that price. Even if you get them with cheap components, then you have to spend $500.00 to beef it up, so better of spending the $1K now for something good.

I will keep looking for things, but MICS are easy guys, I can get you what ever you want. Electronics come with a whole lot of baggage as cheap is cheap and then it just becomes another unit you do not use, and to get something you will use all the time, well that will cost more to do.

Alan,

Considering the "majority vote" has been for clones, can you give some detailed indication of.......

1)What clones could be "easily" sourced from China.

2)What kind of $$$ you would think clones may be out of China.

ChrisO

anguswoodhead

06-07-2009, 07:33 AM

Alan
I'm still keen and I know a lot of the guys from Gearslutz are too.
We never said we wanted an 1176 for $200.
I am prepared to pay reasonable cash for a good product.
What else is on offer in the Pre's and Comp's market from China????
Any Tube Ribbon's worth considering?
Thanks for all your work mate.

Leslie Hammond

06-07-2009, 08:12 AM

I have a few rambling comments.

First off - after hearing about saggy ribbons on an earlier group buy, I decided only to gamble on a couple of TnC preamps. I bought two 84s and believe it or not, they both work perfectly and sound better than I expected. (The two problems I encountered are that I had to take the tops off each unit to fit in my rack, and the laughable "buzzer" gain position. ) I read of others whose 84s also worked. Perhaps this design could be more easily tightened up a little, and the 84 could be the only unit offered.

I would happily buy more of this level quality of gear at this price - but I would be much happier buying even better sounding gear at a reasonably higher cost.

With a guarantee, I suppose I would just have to buy a few of the better mics.

I just don't understand why everyone doesn't see the light. All of you should listen to me and start screaming for a quality bus compressor. At this point, a Neve 33609 or clone is going to run you $3-4,000 (and I much rather have that than an API 2500 or SSL type).

I don't care if it gets labeled as a Group Buy ChiNeve or PMI. I just want it to sound good, and it would just be great at about 1/3 of the going price. So Alan, think diode bridge, ok?

Well the Gearslutz thread was shut down by Dr. Delta, so I will continue it here.

Once again, I think many people are looking to get the impossible. I want a Ferrari for $500.00 as well, but it ain't gonna happen without it not being fast or dependable. Now I can get a Ferrari Kit Car for much less

http://www.kitcars.com/Classifieds/AdDetails.asp?classified_id=21578

At the end of the day, it will still be a 1980 Corvette body and motor. As for LA2A's, 1176's and all the other high end gear everyone seems to want, well you can get it, but not for that price. Even if you get them with cheap components, then you have to spend $500.00 to beef it up, so better of spending the $1K now for something good.

I will keep looking for things, but MICS are easy guys, I can get you what ever you want. Electronics come with a whole lot of baggage as cheap is cheap and then it just becomes another unit you do not use, and to get something you will use all the time, well that will cost more to do.

kasprouch

06-07-2009, 03:58 PM

sounds good - in

Drone

06-07-2009, 10:19 PM

Alan,

Considering the "majority vote" has been for clones, can you give some detailed indication of.......

1)What clones could be "easily" sourced from China.

2)What kind of $$$ you would think clones may be out of China.

ChrisO

Yeah if someone could come up with a list of units that could be easily outsourced, that would be cool. Then we could decide what the majority is looking for. I'd be into anything tube based like LA2A or a single channel mic pre like a fern VT1.

vicenzajay

06-08-2009, 01:03 AM

Just joined this forum given the swap of the conversation from Gearslutz....as I said over there, I'm in....especially for compressors (2 channel/stereo linkable rack units preferably).

Jay

Ausrock

06-08-2009, 01:14 AM

Hey Jay,

Welcome aboard.

ChrisO

tedr

06-08-2009, 04:33 AM

OK, I hear what is being said regarding electronics. First, let me say that I'm in on mics if that's the only thing we can get worked out.

Now, here's a modest proposal:

Produce a clone of the 1176 comp.

Here's some questions for Alan or anyone else:

1. The schematics for the 1176 are readily available on the net. Are they public domain? Are there any legal issues with using the schematics?

2. What exactly is needed for a Chinese manufacturerer to build something? Just guessing, but I would think they would need a PCB layout and a parts list at the very least. If so, here's a possible solution. Get an original 1176 and remove all components from the PCB. Using a scanner or camera, create a template of the trace pattern. Again, is this legal?

3. Parts list. Pain in the rear, but not that hard with the schematic or the original unit.

4. Parts that no longer are available. Now here could be a significant problem. The inherent sound of any circuit is at least partly determined by the individual components. Say for example, an FET transistor xxxx was used in the original circuit, but hasn't been available for several years (or more). We would need someone who could select an available component that has identical (unlikely) or very similar (more likely) electical charactersitics. I don't have that knowledge, but I'll bet there are people here that do. Jim Williams comes to mind. Alan, I'll bet you've got at least one engineer on staff that could do this. Whoever does this work may wish to be compensated for it. We'd have to figure this into the final price.

5. Parts that are available, but are lower end components (xformers for example). We could do one of several things... Use the cheaper Chinese stuff and just be happy, use the cheaper stuff with the idea of modding it afterward, or don't use the part at all, rather leave them out all together with and have the higher priced, quality parts installed here (in the US) either by someone like Alan, or someone else here with the skills to do this. Again, that person may wish to be compensated for this.

Now, given this scenario, I would ask Alan if he could at least shoot from the hip and give us some idea what it would cost if we met the above requirements (along with who knows how many I haven't even thought of) to have 50, 100, 200 or more units built. In other words, if I could come to you (Alan) with a schematic, a PCB layout, and a parts list of available parts, what would it cost to build the thing? Include in the price the stuff like the money you'd want to set aside for warranty, overhead for you (costs money to fly to China) and some kind of reasonable profit margin.

If, that price was, say $1100, how many of you would be interested in what would be a close clone of an 1176? Seeing that they are going for about $3000 on the 'bay, I'd be in for several.

What do you think? If we could figure out how to provide what the factories need in the way of build documents for some of this classic stuff many of us lust after and be able to get it for what might be a reasonable sum of money ($1100 isn't chump change to me) but quite a lot cheaper than the real deal, we might be able to make this work.

Just my thoughts on this.
ted

anguswoodhead

06-08-2009, 08:01 AM

I would suggest that the price should be considerably less than $1100 for an 1176 copy.
Considering an MC77 can be had for $1650 and they are made in the US ??? (are they?)
I would suspect Allan could do it for around $500. (hopefully)
This is assuming the whole thing is made in china.
It is possible for the Chinese to use parts sourced from other countries - they have the cheap labour after all - let's use that.
Of course once they have the design it will be available for everyone after a few months - lol.

Alan Hyatt

06-08-2009, 09:25 PM

matti

06-08-2009, 09:30 PM

Sounds good!

Matti

Alan Hyatt

06-08-2009, 09:40 PM

We have to design these. Just can't get it done the way it needs to be done, so I will have to put a guy on it.

anguswoodhead

06-08-2009, 09:42 PM

We have to design these. Just can't get it done the way it needs to be done, so I will have to put a guy on it.

Awesome - good job Alan.

matti

06-08-2009, 09:45 PM

I like this idea of " modular " set of units, mix and match.
No hurry what so ever, just make them right.

Thanks!

Matti

SemolinaPilchard

06-08-2009, 10:20 PM

Mr. Pilchard says,

"Run with it Mr Hyatt.....and Godspeed."

Ausrock

06-08-2009, 11:06 PM

Ok guys, what I think the best thing for us to do is as follows:

We will take the NEVE style mic amp out of the ENVY, make it a dual channel mic amp
We will take the NEVE style EQ and make that a separate unit. Also a dual channel
We will see about doing an SSL Buss Compressor type clone

I will get prices on this and see how long it will take to get done. That is where I suggest we start. You can pull the Chinese transformers out, and replace them with whatever you wish.

The quality should be pretty good all by themselves. I do not think doing them as mono units is worth it. Dual units are better.

Alan,

For those who don't know about the ENVY, it may be wise to give a little history.

BTW, I think you are now on the right track........definitely a dual channel or maybe even a quad channel if it is feasable.

ChrisO

A further BTW..............I think Justin needs to have a good close look at what is and isn't functioning correctly in ALL the forums ie: HTML and vB codings.

anguswoodhead

06-08-2009, 11:13 PM

Yeah - tried to find some info about the 'Envy' but no joy.
Help !!!

matti

06-08-2009, 11:20 PM

Ah, now I remember this project that never happened. You told the story
during the other gb discussions.

Matti

vicenzajay

06-09-2009, 12:49 AM

chris carter

06-09-2009, 01:06 AM

Hmmmm... I like the idea of the 2ch mic pre and separate 2ch EQ. Looking at the Envy, it appears the EQ is the 1081 flavor.

This could be very interesting as I'm sitting on two TNC81 pieces of junk and buying the 2ch pre + 2ch1081 EQ will likely cost LESS than fixing these things!

Looking at the Envy pics, I would ask two things:
1) skip the digital i/o - I don't see the point.
2) For the EQ, I would like them to be independent channels (as opposed to one set of controls for linked channels). Is that possible?
3) I don't see an impedence switch on the Envy. This isn't THAT big of a deal to me, but if it's easy to put on for $0.50 extra, I'd say do it.

Higher rez photo of Envy: http://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=2943222&postcount=4910

tedr

06-09-2009, 02:37 AM

Alan,

For those who don't know about the ENVY, it may be wise to give a little history.

.

Yes, please. History, please?

Ausrock

06-09-2009, 05:09 AM

tedr,

Refer to the link in the previous post, that should tell you enough.

tarnationsauce

06-09-2009, 07:19 AM

tedr,

Refer to the link in the previous post, that should tell you enough.

No quite though. It looks like the Envy is a 1081 clone - that is a class A/B preamp.
But if the Envy is like the ACMP81 then it's a class A preamp.
Class A is what I desire.

tarnationsauce

06-09-2009, 07:27 AM

You can pull the Chinese transformers out, and replace them with whatever you wish.

Great idea. To help facilitate this the PCB/case can be designed to have mounting holes and be labeled for easy swap out with an equivalent high quality transformer ala Carnhill, Cinemag, Lundahl, etc. But make it an easily obtainable transformer.
This should also go for the inductors.

Also be careful with the power supply on the EQ! That's where a big part of the problem in the ACMP pres is. A separate PSU would be a good idea.

matti

06-09-2009, 09:04 AM

ACMP81 has 73 preamp but 81 eq.

Matti

tarnationsauce

06-09-2009, 09:39 AM

ACMP81 has 73 preamp but 81 eq.

Matti

Yes Matti thank you. The question I ask is the ENVY preamp the same as the ACMP81? (meaning 73 preamp)

Or is the ENVY preamp true to the original Neve 1081 and has the class AB preamp?

matti

06-09-2009, 09:44 AM

My bad, din´t read right -just woke and no coffee yet.

Matti

kidvybes

06-09-2009, 07:22 PM

Also be careful with the power supply on the EQ! That's where a big part of the problem in the ACMP pres is. A separate PSU would be a good idea.

...absolutely agree!...both my GAP Pre-73 and my Neve 1290 use outboard PSUs with no problem...

Yes Matti thank you. The question I ask is the ENVY preamp the same as the ACMP81? (meaning 73 preamp)

Or is the ENVY preamp true to the original Neve 1081 and has the class AB preamp?

...not that I'm absolutely sure, but from what I gathered from researching the 797Audio preamps, they were all pretty much based on the 1073 with different EQ setups...

...I'm in for preamps and compressors for sure!...looking good..

caotico

06-10-2009, 06:31 AM

a nice dual pre would be great; i'd be interested in mics too. Are those still a possibility?

gianpaolo

06-10-2009, 07:06 AM

hi, all

I am still interested in mics, if anyone else is, perhaps we should say.

I like the thought of ribbon mics, and angus suggested a tube ribbon. Anyone else like that idea?

jsi.miles

06-10-2009, 06:27 PM

I'll throw my hat in... I'm interested.
Keep me posted when its gets close to a consensus on what's going to be built.

I'd be mostly interested in a dual mic pre w/ dynamics.
Mic's are always interesting though.

montanasan

06-10-2009, 11:11 PM

Sounds good over here. Looking forward with anticipation.

Marcadiablo

06-11-2009, 12:52 AM

Count me in.

I'm assuming that the Mojave Audio MA-200 is a rebranded Chinese mic, right? Can this be found cheaper over there?

harpo twang

06-11-2009, 02:38 PM

Very interested in ribbon mics, pres and comps

Cheers,

vicenzajay

06-11-2009, 03:55 PM

Count me in.

I'm assuming that the Mojave Audio MA-200 is a rebranded Chinese mic, right? Can this be found cheaper over there?

Would be the only mic I'd be interested in for this GB....great suggestion. Again, I think we'd be looking at a txformer swap for it in the end, but getting a real quality tube LD condenser for quite a bit less than a grand would be a big draw (at least for me).

Jay

kidvybes

06-11-2009, 11:15 PM

Count me in.

I'm assuming that the Mojave Audio MA-200 is a rebranded Chinese mic, right? Can this be found cheaper over there?

...not a "rebranded Chinese mic"...it is an original/modified design utilizing a sub-miniature vacuum tube by David Royer that is contract manufactured for Mojave by a Chinese factory...since it is not OEM, we would probably not have this particular design available to us...the design schematic has been on the net for years, and many DYI'ers have built a variation...I have 2...one built by a tech buddy of mine and one of the Royers/Mojave original prototypes...great mic!...

***original DYI info here:
http://www.hugeuniverse.com/recording/tapeop/tube_mic_25_1.shtml

Marcadiablo

06-12-2009, 03:43 AM

...not a "rebranded Chinese mic"...it is an original/modified design utilizing a sub-miniature vacuum tube by David Royer that is contract manufactured for Mojave by a Chinese factory...since it is not OEM, we would probably not have this particular design available to us...the design schematic has been on the net for years, and many DYI'ers have built a variation...I have 2...one built by a tech buddy of mine and one of the Royers/Mojave original prototypes...great mic!...

***original DYI info here:
http://www.hugeuniverse.com/recording/tapeop/tube_mic_25_1.shtml

Thanks for the info. I'll check into it. So if the schematics are available, can it be done commercially or that could be an infringement some kind? If that's the case, then what type of mic could get us in the ballpark? What should be the specifications for a type of mic like that?

chris carter

06-13-2009, 12:06 AM

...
We will take the NEVE style mic amp out of the ENVY, make it a dual channel mic amp
We will take the NEVE style EQ and make that a separate unit. Also a dual channel
...

I will get prices on this and see how long it will take to get done. That is where I suggest we start. You can pull the Chinese transformers out, and replace them with whatever you wish.
...
.

Any update on this? I really like this idea a lot.

Ausrock

06-13-2009, 01:00 AM

I think we need to have patience.........................I suspect the guys working on the tech details (ie: how best to seperate the pres and EQs and put them in a new configuration, etc. ) are in the UK and the manufacturing details will obviously be worked out in China.

ChrisO

gianpaolo

06-14-2009, 04:16 AM

What happened to any possible microphone group buys?

Has everyone gone cold on mic buys?

chris carter

06-14-2009, 05:53 AM

vicenzajay

06-14-2009, 07:39 AM

The thing about mics is that there are already tons of very low cost mics out there. But there is a very slim selection of super cheap rack gear. There are basically zero options for a super low cost four band EQ, for example. I think that's why people are a little more excited about the prospect of getting some rack gear as opposed to mics.

Concur...same with low cost (yet very decent) compressor units.

I'm really looking forward to this buy if Alan is able to go through with it.

Jay

Leslie Hammond

06-15-2009, 08:57 PM

Alan,
I think a 4 channel preamp would be very, very popular. While a dual channel unit at first seems cheaper, it will end up costing extra for those seeking more channels.

Thanks!

Ok guys, what I think the best thing for us to do is as follows:

We will take the NEVE style mic amp out of the ENVY, make it a dual channel mic amp
We will take the NEVE style EQ and make that a separate unit. Also a dual channel
We will see about doing an SSL Buss Compressor type clone

I will get prices on this and see how long it will take to get done. That is where I suggest we start. You can pull the Chinese transformers out, and replace them with whatever you wish.

The quality should be pretty good all by themselves. I do not think doing them as mono units is worth it. Dual units are better.

chris carter

06-16-2009, 03:18 PM

Only speaking for myself, but a 4 channel preamp would be overkill.

chris carter

06-22-2009, 01:27 AM

Any updates Alan?

Alan Hyatt

07-01-2009, 06:53 AM

Ausrock

07-01-2009, 10:39 AM

Ok guys, what I think the best thing for us to do is as follows:

We will take the NEVE style mic amp out of the ENVY, make it a dual channel mic amp
We will take the NEVE style EQ and make that a separate unit. Also a dual channel
We will see about doing an SSL Buss Compressor type clone

I will get prices on this and see how long it will take to get done. That is where I suggest we start. You can pull the Chinese transformers out, and replace them with whatever you wish.

The quality should be pretty good all by themselves. I do not think doing them as mono units is worth it. Dual units are better.

Alan,

Have you been able to make any progress re your above idea of reworking the ENVY?

Also, you had ealier alluded to having a ribbon mic that would be suitable for further modding, etc., was this seperate to the mics you are planning for the Meek range, etc?

Chris

chris carter

07-01-2009, 06:37 PM

Well, it seems that no one really wants mics, which is the easiest thing to do. Mic amps are not off the shelf in China...or at ;east the kind everyone seems to want, and neither are compressors. So I am not sure at this stage if there is anything I can do on the immediate side of things.

You just can't buy an LA2, 1176, or other vintage clone without designing it.

I would be down for the 2ch ENVY EQ and the 2ch ENVY preamp. How much 'design' would this really entail? Is this option still something you are considering?

caotico

07-02-2009, 05:38 PM

Well, it seems that no one really wants mics, which is the easiest thing to do.

Well, I would be up for some mics if the price was right. Is it true that nobody wants mics?

gianpaolo

07-04-2009, 06:59 AM

Well, I would be up for some mics if the price was right. Is it true that nobody wants mics?

I am interested in mics, especially if there was a ribbon or even a tube ribbon.

stettoman

07-04-2009, 12:29 PM

I too am microphone challenged.

Funny how such a conceivably simple thing can become more and more complicated and frustrating. My single-celled little brain likes to tell me to "Start simple, do it well, then move on"...Sure, I'd love some hard-er core gear for my signal path, but the complexity of securing a component that everyone can agree to go with followed by the logistics of design, manufacture and distribution seems to me to be jumping into the deep end first.

A mic buy would be simple, fast and likely much less frustrating to those without a sense of patience for the complexities of a component gear deal...At least to my single-celled little brain...

chris carter

07-04-2009, 06:34 PM

The best thing to do would be to create a poll with a few items Alan thinks he can get. But there are very few people in this forum so really gearslutz would be a better location (or HR, but the TNC thread there was shut down so I wouldn't bother).

The reason I'm interested in the ENVY pre and EQ is because I have the TNC versions (with their problems). So I already know the pre is good (similar to the GAP Pre73 and the CL pre). And I know people with fixed EQ sections on their TNC units who love them. So for me I pretty much know what I'd be getting, just better because a) they wouldn't have problems and b) the pres and EQs would be separate giving me more flexibility. I think if alan presented it on Gearslutz he'd easily do a few hundred units of those. And 98% of the design is already done.

But if he just wants to do mics so there is zero design work, I don't blame him... I'm just not interested.

caotico

07-04-2009, 07:22 PM

Ok, so as long as it does not have my brand names, I am willing to offer Group Buys on microphones and electronics.

All I would need is the product you want. These cannot be a PMI designed product, but I know pretty much every factory there is to know in China, and the microphones you were buying are available from any of 20 factories for very little money. I could be persuaded to do this but I cannot sell anything in good conscious without a warranty.
......
As for electronics, I am willing to design a unit if you want. I would need the features and any other requirements you wanted on any kind of mic-pre, eq, or other product, and this too would have to come with a warranty, but I am willing if there is enough demand for them to get you a very low price. Again, this would not carry the PMI Brand. .....

I can assure you that the time to do this would be much faster than with previous buys.

Comments?

Largely, people here seem to have misread Alan's original post (or they have only taken the second half of it and gone crazy with clone/feature requests). I'm disappointed that the discussion has run this way.

Alan, given enough interest, would you still be willing to do this as a mics only group buy?

Am I right that designing electronics has turned out to be too complicated/too long a process?

Even if we scratch the offer to design electronics, we had a chance here to have an excellent group buy that would run significantly faster than those that have been done before (because Alan already has connections and numerous options). AND there would be a warranty on the mics.

I would be in for getting some mics quickly and cheaply just as they already are on the catalog (with whatever brand name we decide to throw on them). On the last GB I did, we ordered in May or June and started getting mics back in October. A similar buy for mics with a faster turnaround and a warranty would be great IMO. For a brand name we could just have them labeled MIC or not have a label for that matter. Who cares, as long as they work.

Is this no longer an option? Please chime in if you agree.

chris carter

07-10-2009, 02:34 AM

Okay, based on the sporadic nature of Alan's postings, I'm assuming this group buy will not happen.

If it actually DOES happen, somebody e-mail me at chrisproducer ...AT... gmail.com

Ausrock

07-10-2009, 08:55 AM

Chris,

Alan appears to have been (semi) absent from G/sltz too so I'm assuming he is preoccupied with "real" business stuff, anyways mate, you'll be kept in the loop.

ChrisO

JosephL

07-10-2009, 10:37 PM

How about a copy of the Studio Projects CS5?

vicenzajay

07-14-2009, 02:23 AM

Okay, based on the sporadic nature of Alan's postings, I'm assuming this group buy will not happen.

If it actually DOES happen, somebody e-mail me at chrisproducer ...AT... gmail.com

same here - I'm all up for an Alan-run Group buy...but it seems as if this might be sputtering out. I'd also like an email (should it happen) at vicenzajay AT gmail.com

I would buy several units of outboard EQ's and (most needed) mastering-type or stereo-linkable rack unit compressors.

Jay

Airlock

07-15-2009, 01:18 AM

Add me to the list please. No idea what is going to come out of it but I need everything anyway. :)

Alan Hyatt

07-18-2009, 03:20 AM

Chris,

Alan appears to have been (semi) absent from G/sltz too so I'm assuming he is preoccupied with "real" business stuff, anyways mate, you'll be kept in the loop.

ChrisO

Chris, yep..I am actually very busy with new stuff. The group buy thing has turned into something else. What I thought people wanted was DIY cheap mics to mod. No one seems to want them now. If I am going to have to design mic amp, or compressors, then I will design them for my brands.

So, I am not sure if this group buy thing will pan out at all. So I am back at work spending my time developing new stuff.

Alan Hyatt

07-18-2009, 03:22 AM

How about a copy of the Studio Projects CS5?

Now why would I want to do that? The CS5 is cheap enough and is worth five times the price you will pay for it.

stettoman

07-18-2009, 04:33 PM

Heh...Well I for one am all about a mic buy, but I guess that the few of us there are don't qualify as a "group". I guess I can understand and accept that.

In the mean time, can we PLEEZE get those SP and JM ribbons out?

Alan Hyatt

07-18-2009, 05:39 PM

If we can get a couple hundred people for a mic buy...I will do it...

Paul G

07-20-2009, 03:13 AM

I'd be in for a mic GB. My brothers might be as well. Thanks.

Marcadiablo

08-01-2009, 08:45 PM

I want mics!

Alan Hyatt

08-03-2009, 09:11 PM

Well, this is a start...anyone out there want to organize all of this stuff. If you have the time, then I will get you some free mics.

All I need is someone to put the buy list together, all of the names and e-mails. We can handle it from there. We still need to know what type of mic you all want, then I will put up some photo's for you all to choose... Then, I will get you the price.

Alan

Airlock

08-04-2009, 02:40 AM

I'll go for mics too.
--
sburkart at dropzone dot com

caotico

08-04-2009, 06:16 PM

I'd be glad to help. I'll pm you, Alan.

Airlock

08-07-2009, 11:49 PM

Sheesh. Gimme the tools, I'll play sheriff for a while.

Ausrock

08-08-2009, 12:52 AM

Airlock,

The mods here can only "mod" on specific forums, it is up to the rarely seen PMI staff to take care of spammers, etc.

barks

08-09-2009, 04:43 PM

Hi Alan

I'm interested in the Mic GB.

Toft ATB's bearing up well at Leeds College of Music btw!

Barks

gianpaolo

08-13-2009, 01:57 AM

I'll go for mics too.
--
sburkart at dropzone dot com

I'll buy a few

singaman

08-13-2009, 02:28 AM

I WOULD LIKE TO BUY SEVERAL!!!. lets make this happen soon!!!!

Alan Hyatt

08-13-2009, 05:09 PM

I'd be glad to help. I'll pm you, Alan.

Look at your PM...Send me your regular e-mail...

BryanTX512

08-14-2009, 10:02 PM

I'd be in for some more mics. I like the ribbon I got in the other GB.

Alan Hyatt

08-14-2009, 10:53 PM

Paul G

08-16-2009, 12:48 AM

Again, we need to narrow it down...Ribbon, Tube, Fixed Cardioid???

What does everyone want? We have to have some quantity per model, so we can't order 25 of these, 30 of those. We need to reach the 250 mark of one model.

Hi Alan. I'm looking to get one of the TNC ACM-1200 multipattern tube mics, (supposedly, it's a rebadged ShuaiYin SYT1200), if you could get them. Of course, I'd entertain whatever the group wants. Thanks.

Paul

gianpaolo

08-16-2009, 10:31 AM

I'll have ribbon or tube condenser.

Alan Hyatt

08-18-2009, 05:54 PM

Ok guys... Go to this link:

http://picasaweb.google.com/MicLovin4ever/MicsILike#

These are some of the options we can do for you. Tube mics can come in several different body styles as can the condenser's. The ribbons are the ribbons. So have a look at these, try to get it down to to or three styles of mics.

Then, we can see if this buy can get off the ground.

Any questions, let me know.

SemolinaPilchard

08-18-2009, 05:57 PM

Mr Pilchard would also be interested in a multi-pattern tube condensor. He would go for a ribbon as well. Really, count him in for any type of mic to bring the total to 250.

(He waits, clutching wallet)

caotico

08-18-2009, 09:58 PM

Looks like we have some great options. I made a little blog to help newcomers see what's going on and help us drum up some interest in the group buy (as long as that's ok with you, Alan). And I put a small poll there (mic type). I'll make a poll where we can rate the different body styles this evening. Check it out: http://micgroupbuy.blogspot.com/

Alan Hyatt

08-18-2009, 10:03 PM

caotico

08-19-2009, 09:15 AM

Thanks, Alan.

Looks like we have a few voters. I just added a poll for mic designs as well, using the picasa pics. Check it out, and vote.

http://micgroupbuy.blogspot.com/

Alan Hyatt

08-19-2009, 05:44 PM

So far it seems like Tube and Ribbon mics are being selected. Is anyone going over to Gearslutz to get those guys up to speed on this. I know a bunch of those guys may want to join in on a buy...

If someone will do that there and post the link, it will help. The more we can order, the better....

caotico

08-20-2009, 06:56 AM

Hi Alan. I'm looking to get one of the TNC ACM-1200 multipattern tube mics, (supposedly, it's a rebadged ShuaiYin SYT1200), if you could get them. Of course, I'd entertain whatever the group wants. Thanks.

Paul

The Tube 2 picture looks like that model, I believe, which looks a bit like the apex 460.

Votes so far seem to be favoring a bottle type tube. Who's on board if that's the one we go for? I'd be happy with that one. I like the bottle look myself, tube or no.

I posted a reply to earlier threads on Gearslutz and on Homerecording. Maybe we should start new threads though. We'll still need more people on board, so spread the word.

Leslie Hammond

08-20-2009, 09:03 AM

I'd say we should buy the models that sound the best stock regardless of whatever type they are.

We should choose the grill shape whose resonance sounds best with the stock electronics.

caotico

08-23-2009, 07:05 AM

Leslie, I agree with you that we should go with which one sounds the best sans mod, but ideally we should get one that sounds good and that people who want to mod would be interested in as well.

It might be tough to know at the moment exactly which ones would sound the best with the stock parts because Alan hasn't told us what's inside of these yet. But a few pages back in his description of the types of mics we would be getting, he made it fairly clear that we would be looking at mics that would be similar to those Chinese mics being offered by other companies.

It is really clear what brands out there are using these factories to build their goods and how blatant these companies are just picking them out of the catalogs and claiming credit for them. Amazing! So if you want APEX, Avantone, and companies like that, I have the catalogs so we can buy them very cheap if we can get some quantity.

Lots of ribbons, tubes, and more. I will get the photos I took up on the web and post the address.

Of course we see some of the usual suspects (eg. the Lollipop ribbon). Are there any other mics in the pics Alan gave us that look like mics you want (based on their similarity to others)? Certainly, stock electronics may vary from the branded models, but it's a starting point for at least narrowing it down. Once we get enough votes and more people expressing their interest, we'll narrow it down to one or two mics. I've offered to help take names and preliminary orders, but I'm not going to start doing that until we get more people expressing interest and voting on which mic they want.

http://micgroupbuy.blogspot.com

Sacice

08-25-2009, 10:40 AM

I might be interested, thinking of doing another Kennedy sometime in the future and would love something a little easier to use.

fiddler59

08-26-2009, 04:04 PM

I would be in for a group buy on tube mics too, I know this may be a bit much but I am going to put my 2 cents on some specifics too. It would be really great to have a tube mic specd out with a 47 style capsule back plate with simple circuitry a kin to the royer mxl mod that was going on a few years back....just food for thought !!

David Blackmon

Sacice

08-26-2009, 10:48 PM

I might be interested, thinking of doing another Kennedy sometime in the future and would love something a little easier to use.

BryanTX512

08-28-2009, 06:49 AM

I really like the one *royer* knockoff ribbon I got in the last group buy. I also like the 1200 and 6802's. But I didn't see any of these is the mic list. I thought if this group buy happened, Alan would use the same mfgr as the other group buy.

Leslie Hammond

08-29-2009, 05:12 AM

FWIW, this chinese mic looks better than our choices: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Recording-Microphones-BR-6.html

Alan Hyatt

08-29-2009, 09:52 PM

FWIW, this chinese mic looks better than our choices: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Recording-Microphones-BR-6.html
FWIW, this chinese mic looks better than our choices: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Recording-Microphones-BR-6.html

That mic is the Standard South Cina mic made by tons of assemblers there. Many people buy parts from all the different manufacturers and assemble them and put out a line of their own. This mic is not made by TianTuo Mic. It is made by someone else, or assembled from parts from other companies.

Trust me on this, this mic may sound ok, but anything I bring in will sound better than that mic! I would not buy anything from that company if you paid me to do it. I see some 50 companies like this when I am at the China shows. You don't want any part of that!!!!

Leslie Hammond

08-29-2009, 11:27 PM

I'm sorry - I don't think I communicated clearly. We have been looking at pictures of mics without regard to electronics, and I wrote:

"FWIW, this chinese mic looks better than our choices: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Recording-Microphones-BR-6.html"

I meant this literally. I merely thought this mic's housing looks better cosmetically that the choices you showed us. The cosmetically U87/67 styled mic you posted has a grill that is rounded off on top, where this one has the classic flat top we all know and love. I posted that link to see if by any outside chance, this grill shape and housing is available to put the capsule and electronics in. That's all. (Ok now I realize it's is probably a stupid question.)

Alan, I really appreciate your efforts here.

Thanks,
LH

Trust me on this, this mic may sound ok, but anything I bring in will sound better than that mic!

caotico

09-01-2009, 10:55 AM

Do we know if the one labeled tube 2 has similar guts to other tubes mics that look like it. I like the look of that one.

Alan Hyatt

09-01-2009, 05:31 PM

Do we know if the one labeled tube 2 has similar guts to other tubes mics that look like it. I like the look of that one.

The design is the same except one is a fixed cardioid, and the other is a multi-pattern mic with a nine selector power supply.

SemolinaPilchard

09-03-2009, 05:43 PM

OK, I will get the ball rolling.

I'll take 2 of the 9 pattern tube mics. Now, 248 of you line up behind me and let's move this GB along.

chris carter

09-04-2009, 03:08 AM

Interested in tube 3 depending on what electronics are inside.

I'm more concerned about how they sound than what they look like.....

SemolinaPilchard

09-04-2009, 05:40 PM

caotico

09-08-2009, 06:45 AM

These mics have been talked to death on every audio forum on the internet. A little google action will give you a pretty accurate glimpse of the electronics inside these things. Or google Chinese mic manufacturers and you can find info on every one.

Or Alan can give us a basic discription of each and we can be done with it.

Let's just do this instead of spending the next 6 months chatting up every aspect of every mic and speculating on the merits of group buys. Let's have some mics in our hands by the end of the year.

My wife says I have the ability to make the trains run on time at our house. I guess I do, so let's pull this train out of the station and get it rolling down the tracks.

All aboard!

Well said. Encouraging enough to get me to set up a way for everyone to register.

I'm interested in the buy because i bought a 6802 tube from one of the other Group Buys. I really like the mic stock for vocals, and I know it could sound even better with a mod. We know what these mics are like based on experience with the type of mics we're looking at. Plus these will have a warranty, and they come from a manufacturer that Alan knows about. Alan, if there is anything different about the insides of these mics, do let us know.

I set up a ticket for these on eventbrite (so it acts like it's a ticket to a show or something. 1 ticket = commitment to buy 1 mic). Let's spread the word and see if we can get enough people to commit to this. I'm assuming we'll be going for either the tube type 2 or type 3. You should be able to set up a registration password so you can change your info as well. I can add more tickets, and I will add another one if we decide to include a ribbon, but so far, the tube is the winner. Let's get the word out and get as many people signed up as we can. I set the number to 250, so you should see it count down from there on the event page. Once we're down to 0, we'll have enough people committed to go through with the buy.

sign up for free here (down payments will be later and processed by PMI, not me)

http://micgroupbuy.eventbrite.com/

we'll still be awaiting the following info from Alan:
-specs
-anything we should know about the insides of the mic and/or accessories.
-estimated price

I suspect Alan will be plenty happy to give us more info about these mics as soon as we get enough people signing up to let him know that we're serious about doing it.

Paul G

09-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Thanks for setting this up, Caotico. I'll get this info to my brothers and we'll get signed up.

I would like to get an idea of what the price might be as I'm looking for a tube mic to mod. The ShauiYin SYT1200 was around $110 in Chances GB and I can get the Apex 460 for $190.

Somewhere in the middle I would guess. (Of course, Alan needs to make a few bucks on this deal as well). Anyway, info on pricing would be appreciated. Thanks.

Airlock

09-09-2009, 01:53 AM

I'm in, and I don't care what it looks like, as long as it sounds decent and never produces magic smoke I'll be a happy camper.

Paul G

09-09-2009, 02:32 PM

I went ahead and registered. I talked to my brothers last night. I think that at least two might sign up as well. 245 to go!

Paul

caotico

09-14-2009, 08:20 AM

Well, there are a few of us on board, but we definitely need to spread the word for this to happen. Let's get 239 more mics ordered..

micgroupbuy.eventbrite.com

stettoman

09-17-2009, 02:27 PM

I just registered for two.

Is there a ballpark total estimate price so I can distract Mama with a nice new leather couch when payup time comes?

Alan Hyatt

09-17-2009, 08:25 PM

I will get some prices and put them up here in a couple of days on some tube mics...

Paul G

09-18-2009, 01:41 AM

Thanks Alan.

Alan Hyatt

09-19-2009, 07:38 PM

Ok, this is a tube mic, inside an aluminum case. It has a nice shock mount and is supplied with a nine pattern selectable external power supply. I will post pics shortly. We have tested this mic and listened to it. It is a very good sounding mic. Probably fine as is for many, but also a great mic to upgrade transformer and tube to become something special for the DIY guys.

We can have it screened any name, model and color we want. So if we do it, you guys pick the name and model. If you don't care we will call it the TMB(The Mic Buy) TM-2000.

I think I can land it after shipping, fees, duty and a handling fee to cover my administration of all the paperwork for about $160.00...but I want to speak to the manufacturer to confirm, as all depends on quantity.

So, if the price is too much, then we scrap it, but guys, we need to get people committed to buy or all is lost.

Your thoughts please?

stettoman

09-20-2009, 12:02 AM

I'm not made of money Alan, believe it or not I had a meningioma yanked out of my frontal lobe last month and have been out of work until last week...

But $160, if that's what you can finagle, is way way less than I had assumed.

In that ballpark, I'm all in.

chris carter

09-21-2009, 01:07 AM

recordinghacks

09-22-2009, 07:04 AM

Alan, can you tell us who made the capsule? I assume it's a K67 style, but it would be useful to know whose it is.

Alan Hyatt

09-22-2009, 06:19 PM

Alan, can you tell us who made the capsule? I assume it's a K67 style, but it would be useful to know whose it is.

Actually, it is based more on the older Neumann M7 cap.... It does sound pretty nice. I hope to have photo's before I leave for AES.

SemolinaPilchard

09-23-2009, 08:04 PM

Would this mic be another re-branded Apex 460, ACM1200, and countless others?

Alan Hyatt

09-23-2009, 08:39 PM

Would this mic be another re-branded Apex 460, ACM1200, and countless others?

As far as I know, APEX is done by AV Leader. If I am wrong then I stand corrected, but there are only a couple of people who make that style of mic. This mic on this group buy is not by any of them.

What you will never get away from on any South China mic is the design. They are all basically the same. It starts off many years ago with one company like SoundKing or Fielo, then engineers split off to start their own company and on an on. Before you know it, you have 25 factories all selling the same thing. Alcatron, SE and others now put all kinds of mics out there with brand names like APEX, Avantone, and Cascade along with dozens of other factories and assemblers.

At the end of the day, it is what it is!

Funny, now Shure, AT and other major brands now make many models in China, but no one calls them a Chinese mic. Some of these major brands are made in the same factory we build Studio Projects, our US designed mics. I know, as I have seen them. AT gets the same factory I do to build several of their mics as well.

So if you are looking for a deal on a good sounding mic, then jump on board. While not the same look as APEX, it is still a South China design....you can't change that unless we design on. If you want that, then you should look into the Studio Projects TB1 or T3. They were designed by Brent Casey and assembled in China.

caotico

10-03-2009, 07:25 PM

That sounds like a good price. Let's get pics and specs and everything so that we can get the ball rolling. I don't think there's any point in posting on any other sites until we actually have details on a product.

Agreed. Let's get the specs and the final picture up and then really push this thing, getting everybody signed up. We have 22 mics spoken for as of today. Once we have the price and more info, I think more people will jump on board (especially if we have a pretty good idea of a timeline).

http://micgroupbuy.eventbrite.com

Alan Hyatt

10-03-2009, 08:14 PM

Hey guys,

I am on the way to New York for two weeks for business and the AES Show. I am in the California office on the 14th and will post the photo then.

After that, we will final the price. In a few weeks, all details will be done... Then it is up to you.

Paul G

10-03-2009, 09:34 PM

Thanks Alan.

caotico

10-04-2009, 06:17 AM

Hey guys,
I am in the California office on the 14th and will post the photo then.

After that, we will final the price. In a few weeks, all details will be done... Then it is up to you.

Hey, I didn't realize you were just up the road from me. I move to California, and it turns out that everybody lives here...well, at least a lot of people do.

Thanks, Alan. Looking forward to all the final info. Have a nice trip.

stettoman

10-16-2009, 10:44 PM

"Here are a couple photos of the three pattern tube mic...."

Huh? Where'd dey go?

Tomer1

10-23-2009, 01:23 PM

This is exciting,
I had big expections from the gearslutz group buy Alen wanted to do which fell short dou to "handmade hi-end gear for lowend money" requests.

An M7 type capsule sounds interesting, might be the first "dark sounding" tube mic from china....
can we get some more info please? :)

Btw, best of luck with the new Trident brand.

Alan Hyatt

10-23-2009, 03:52 PM

Sorry guys, the photo was too large, I need to reduce the size of the file...

Tomer1

10-24-2009, 04:41 PM

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/434195-multipattern-tubem7-style-capsule-group-buy.html#post4712597

Please spread the word in other forum aswell.
I hope get some israeli buyers to join me :)

Alan, what about thos pictures and some more info.
Need thos to gain increse interest from people.

Ausrock

10-26-2009, 01:31 AM

Michael,

Welcome to the forum.

Knowing Alan, he's probably flat out doing a dozen things at once but hopefully he'll get pics and info up shortly.

ChrisO

Ausrock

10-26-2009, 06:18 AM

But there's something I don't understand. For the life of me I can't figure out why a guy with Alan's repsonsibilities would facilitate a group buy. I mean, 250 mics @ $160ea. is chump change for him.

Alan will have to answer that for you.............he did originally offer to assist me run a GB for the "Down Under" guys but the fact is that the small population/market doesn't make it practical.

Though I did propose about 5 years ago this would be an alternative "line extension" business model that a company like PMI or Nady might get into as a means of conducting market research.

But I do find it interesting that he's a proponent of the M7 / K47 type capsule now - after shipping thousands of K67-type capsule mics.

Yep, I clearly remember your comments re that kind of business model.

ChrisO

Tomer1

10-26-2009, 09:44 AM

"is chump change for him. "

As I said before, we might be guinny pigs + his a nice guy helping us lowenders and diyers.
Speaking of DIY ,
Has anyone posted about this GB in prodigy pro diy community yet?

MSR74

10-29-2009, 03:27 AM

Why is the Gearslutz link down?

Also what is the update on the number of people registered?

Thanks,
Mick

MSR74

10-29-2009, 03:30 AM

Also Alan,

By the way, thank you for such a great opportunity.

Does the selected mic have an X-former? Just curious.

I'm thinking about getting a second one to MOD....

Mick

Tomer1

10-29-2009, 10:43 PM

About 200 left to go.
Going well, about 50 registered users in a week since the gearslutz (and some other forums "adverts"). Im not registered in additional music recording forums so I ask of thos who are to start a thread about this. You may copy the exact content of my gearslutz thread.

Regarding the Xformer:
Most tube mics contain an output transformer (between 6:1 to 10:1 ratio for step up and balancing), its rather rare to find transformless tube mics.
Here is a good book about microphone design
http://books.google.co.il/books?id=GjGg22CNjU0C&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=10:1+microphone+output+transformer&source=bl&ots=R1enW9tyUC&sig=4e_wGqbTpGb9fVm4tdMmF31jdn4&hl=iw&ei=hwzqSom2GYO8jAejpomqDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=10%3A1%20microphone%20output%20transformer&f=false

chris carter

10-30-2009, 02:28 AM

Tomer1

10-30-2009, 02:05 PM

chris carter

10-31-2009, 12:29 AM

China and legal problems?
International copy rights rules do not apply in china.
They copy what ever they want and sell it as their own original design, just have look at the car industry.
Even if you can proove in the europien or american court they stole your design and that its a complete match you still cant sew them. maybe you can stop local distributers from dealing.

That's not really my concern. My concern is if a) can we get the mics and b) can we do it without getting in trouble ourselves (last time I checked, Alan doesn't live in China). I understand that the very small stock of mics were sold off by employees for around $250 - $300 each. Judging from that, I would suspect we could get them (if physically possible) for well under $150 in a group buy. Based on the record I just mixed, that would be an AMAZING deal. When I was mixing the record I called up the artist and asked what the mic was. When he told me what it was and how much it cost I just about died.

Tomer1

10-31-2009, 10:23 PM

Can you post the raw channels recorded with it so we could have a listen?

Alan, Please supply additional info.

chris carter

11-01-2009, 04:21 AM

Can you post the raw channels recorded with it so we could have a listen?

Alan, Please supply additional info.

I can't without the client's permission. But if you go to my website (www.millraceonline.com) and click on "music" and listen to the song "Scorpio" that's the guy with the Dapro mic. Actually, it's MOSTLY Dapro. He had to punch in some sections later on and used a TLM103 (for example, the section from about 2:05 - 2:20 is the 103 if you want to compare mics). Not that the 103 is the most loved vocal mic, but the Dapro poo-poo'd all over it in this situation. I was trying to make the 103 sound like the Dapro rather than the Dapro sound like the 103. The Dapro was much much smoother and took EQ really really well. It was just much easier to work with - wasn't fighting the mic. The 103 was more 'pointy', less full, less rich, and didn't not take EQ as well.

The Dapro needed a lot of top end (this was a pop record after all). It was very rich and very smooth. It took EQ really well; I could have cranked a lot more on the EQ and it would have sounded fine. I was very suprised by the sound so I asked the artist and he told me it was the Dapro and the preamp was a Focusrite Trackmaster (so I knew it certainly wasn't the preamp generating the mojo).

I'm currently mixing a song for the same artist that uses a Neumann 149 for the vocal mic and yes it's very nice, but the songs with the Dapro definitely will not sound out of place on the album at all.

Alan Hyatt

11-04-2009, 12:15 AM

Hey guys, I am sorry for all the delays. The photo of the mic is too large and I don't have anything to make it smaller.

I am actually leaving for China on the 13th, and am heading to the factory that makes these mics. I expect to see a good deal more models. I am trying to get this done for you and I suppose many will not commit until I get more info and photo's up...which I will. But there does not seem to be much excitement.

I do not want to waste my time, and certainly not anyone on this site over this deal in the first place. Not sure if all of a sudden 200 more will jump on board. Is this deal even worth moving forward guys?????

Alan Hyatt

11-04-2009, 12:22 AM

Alan, what's the possibility of finding the plant that did the Dapro CR1-4 microphone and getting some of those. I recently mixed a record where the vocals were cut with a Dapro and I was seriously impressed and I understand it WAS going to be a very inexpensive mic if not for legal problems with Neumann. So, two part question:

1) Can you get the Dapro CR1-4 mic?
2) If you can, can you do it without getting into any trouble? :)

Chris,

The problem with Neumann on this mic is the headgrille. Neumann claims to own that artistic look of the head grill. Personally, I do not know for sure if they do or don't...or if they can enforce it or not, but they can tie you up legally for years and cost you a bunch of money.

To be frank, that mic is the same mic as the Joemeek JM47a. The only difference is the JM47a is in a different body style and Brent Casey did some circuit improvements.

The DaPro CR1-4 is typical of all South China mics(Joemeek Included)...including the factory I am going to on the 13th. So, yes, I can do the mic...just not in that body. If you want to send me the DaPro. I will take it and have it cloned in a different body...Just need 300 units!

Or I will do it exactly that way with your name on it and you sell them. You just have to order 300 and then deal with Neumann!

caotico

11-04-2009, 01:46 AM

Alan, if you want to send me the photo, I can resize it. I'll shoot you an email too.

Yes, response seems a bit slow, but it seems like with more information, more people would bite.

Paul G

11-04-2009, 04:46 AM

caotico

11-04-2009, 08:28 AM

picture size limit is mighty small, but here it is.

Anybody know if the folks at Gearslutz are deleting threads RE this group buy? A cached version of this one is all you can get through google, and it looked like people were expressing interest. In addition, Mr. Joly shared some insights on different types of capsules.

Sorry for the long link:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:MSHisI0k55cJ:www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/434195-multipattern-tubem7-style-capsule-group-buy.html+chinese+mic+with+m7+capsule&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

stettoman

11-04-2009, 12:03 PM

I'm still in, and am sorry that I'm not in a circle of recordists, though I know a lot of mid-level musicians (gigging, but mostly covers). Unfortunately a lot of those guys think the SM57 is the penultimate high end studio mic, followed closely by the...SM58...

I'm excited about the buy, will try to find some others to feel the same...

chris carter

11-04-2009, 03:05 PM

Part of the reason other group buys, including Chance's, got so much interest and participation is because they had the exact products they were going to order, info on those products, and aproximate pricing. There will never be very much interest in this group buy until we have those three things. THEN everyone will jump on board. I don't think there's any point in posting on gearslutz and the other forums until we actually have the info people need to actually be interested.

Alan Hyatt

11-04-2009, 05:24 PM

I want to thank caotico for putting up the photo's. I had no way to reduce the size. I do not work out of our main office anymore so getting things done is difficult for me as I do not have the program that will allow me to reduce the image size. I will ask Justin to get me that program so I can do it.

I am at three factories on the 13th in Shanghai and Ninghbo. These factories probably supply 65% of those brands that I have posted on before. I believe you all should know who makes what rather than think something else that is not true. I posted that APEX, Avantone, and many others buy stock models from these factories. They may add a nice cable that has a buzz word to entice more sales...but at the end of the day, the mic is still an off the shelf mic.

So, if you have a bit more patience, I will come back from trip with all the details, plots and costs of this mic, and others.... I am back on the 23rd. Just give me a few days to recover from the trip.

Paul G

11-05-2009, 12:41 AM

Thanks Alan.

Tomer1

11-06-2009, 04:24 PM

Safe jurney to you sir.

MSR74

11-14-2009, 04:04 AM

So what's the deal? Are we going to do this mic buy or what?

If we are, lets get it together and get some people interested!! I liked the mic posted earlier, black body, black shock, etc. What's the word on the current offering?

We need to get this thing going! As I posted earlier, I don't know what is going on over at gearslutz but the thread was there and now nowhere to be found, why, I'm not sure?

This could be a good opportunity for us trying to do a mod project and those who just want a good off the shelf, useable mic!

Lets work hard to make this happen!

Mick

Alan Hyatt

11-18-2009, 12:45 PM

In China now. Met with one factory today and meeting the other tomorrow. More info coming soon with final price...

Tomer1

11-19-2009, 11:04 PM

Great,
Keep us posted.
And please supply more info about the Mic capsule.
Schematics of head-amp and PSU might also be nice.

mobband

11-21-2009, 11:14 AM

Airlock

11-22-2009, 09:31 PM

Please contact one of the moderators or admin staff before you start any group buys.

To anybody raeding this please do not enter into group buys until they have been approved by the staff. Thanks.

Yeah Alan, what's wrong with you?

Alan Hyatt

11-23-2009, 06:31 PM

Yeah Alan, what's wrong with you?

WTF was with that? How can he speak for me!!!!

Alan Hyatt

11-23-2009, 07:15 PM

OK guys, I am back!

Good meetings and good news. We can be right at the $150.00 mark landed to me. That pays all duty and shipping to me. From there, we will get a freight cost to anyone who wants in on this.

The mic can be done in any color we want.... My files is still too large to post, so I will try with Catico again to send him the pictures...

Anyway, we are now getting close to finishing this. Again, if we can get some quantity, I will do it...

Tomer1

11-23-2009, 11:11 PM

Some more indeapth technical info on the mic please.

Alen you can use http://imageshack.us/
Very easy and fast to use.

Alan Hyatt

11-24-2009, 04:22 PM

Some more indeapth technical info on the mic please.

Alen you can use http://imageshack.us/
Very easy and fast to use.

Printed specs are coming....but the mic sounds very nice.

stettoman

11-25-2009, 10:33 AM

I'm more than happy that a guy in Alan's "position" would facilitate a group buy. I'm also pretty sure that Alan's the type of guy who, should he want or need to change positions would give us enough warning to get out of the way...

It doesn't always have to be about business...

I'm still all in.

Alan Hyatt

11-25-2009, 04:15 PM

Thanks Tomer for the link to Image Shack... A couple photo's are now up at

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/pmiforum/

There are two styles of tube mics to select, both have the same spec, but sound pretty much identical.

As for the printed specs, that is all I have. The mic depending on the quantity could come in less, but that depends on quantity. If this group buy is successful, then I will pass that savings to all of you.

Remember, I am "not" asking for payment in full. I am asking for a 50% deposit if you commit, followed by the balance and shipping charge from California to where ever you are when they come in. These carry a warranty from me. If anything does not work, you send it back, we fix it, and we ship it back to you.

Comments, questions...let me know. I will try to answer them. This is a very good sounding mic. Good for all the guys that want to play with a mic to mod it. Once you mod it, there is no warranty, but you do not lose much if you screw it up.

There you have it....

Tomer1

11-27-2009, 01:51 PM

Like Michael,
I would like to know more on whats under the hood,
Schematics and pictures of the electronics/capsule...

hargerst

11-28-2009, 03:30 PM

Looks like Dave Thomas is willing to support a group buy if this one doesn't happen.
And with even less support than Chance's group buy. Totally at the mercy of the manufacturer, and we saw how that one played out. Works out great for people like you and Marik; not so good for others.

Marik

11-28-2009, 04:28 PM

And with even less support than Chance's group buy. Totally at the mercy of the manufacturer, and we saw how that one played out. Works out great for people like you and Marik; not so good for others.

Harvey, just wondering, why do you mention my name in regards to the Chinese group buys? While it is true I still do (very limited) microphone modifications, it has nothing to do with group buys. I stopped working on Chinese ribbon microphones quite a while ago and offer services only for "classic" ribbons, and on condensers I work only from one very specific aspect, which interests me, i.e. tuning to certain applications, as opposed to just "making the mic "better"". My clients are not those who participate in group buys, or hang out on GS or HR boards. Besides, I am booked at least until some time next August and don't take any new orders or customers. And I do not buy any Chinese microphones for myself, as I don't find any need for them and have enough mics for my recording purposes. So, with all due respect, what it has to do with me and how it is so "great" for me?

Best, M

stettoman

11-28-2009, 04:29 PM

The math on that one doesn't work for me. $200-$300 (and I'm in for two), from a source I have no reason to trust, opposed to hand-picked units from a guy whose mics I already love?

No brainer.

hargerst

11-28-2009, 06:04 PM

Harvey, just wondering, why do you mention my name in regards to the Chinese group buys? While it is true I still do (very limited) microphone modifications, it has nothing to do with group buys. I stopped working on Chinese ribbon microphones quite a while ago and offer services only for "classic" ribbons, and on condensers I work only from one very specific aspect, which interests me, i.e. tuning to certain applications, as opposed to just "making the mic "better"". My clients are not those who participate in group buys, or hang out on GS or HR boards. Besides, I am booked at least until some time next August and don't take any new orders or customers. And I do not buy any Chinese microphones for myself, as I don't find any need for them and have enough mics for my recording purposes. So, with all due respect, what it has to do with me and how it is so "great" for me?

Best, M
Sorry, my friend. I just assumed you did modifications to improve mics of all sorts, including some of the group buys, which would be a constant income stream for people doing mods. No disrespect was intended to either you or Michael, both of whom I deeply respect for your microphone expertise and dedication to microphone improvements.

I was only commenting on the "hit or miss" condition of received products and lack of supplier support when doing Chinese group buys.

MSR74

11-29-2009, 04:49 PM

Do we know which mic will be in the GB? Please no lolipop designs, they are difficult to mod because of the grille design.

Are we still looking at the black with gold grille?

Thanks,
Mick

Alan Hyatt

11-29-2009, 05:14 PM

Do we know which mic will be in the GB? Please no lolipop designs, they are difficult to mod because of the grille design.

Are we still looking at the black with gold grille?

Thanks,
Mick

I posted the picture of the mic. The grille can be chrome or silver color. Color is up to all of you guys. If the majority wants a bottle mic, then so be it...if not, no problem. It is all up to you guys now. The circuit, capsule and spec will all be same on either body.

There is no metal case for this. It will be in a plain cardboard box with no art work. The mic will not have a name or model, unless you all agree that you want one and decide on what you want to call it.

My guess for shipping is about $20.00 or less in most places in the 48 states. All depends on where you are. As I said, if the mic comes in for less, I will pass that on. All depends on quantity.

If nothing turns out of this soon, I will pull the offer. As Michale Jolly pointed out, there are others doing it. Why he points that out, I do not know, but he was just in China at the same factories I was so maybe he would like to do a Group Buy.

Anyway, we are busy with a lot of things for Trident, Joemeek and SP, so if this going to happen, then we need to do it soon. Otherwise, I will have to back out of it.

Paul G

11-29-2009, 09:32 PM

What's our total to date?

The pix of the bottle mic showed a flight case the other one did not. What am I missing?

Alan Hyatt

11-30-2009, 05:37 AM

What's our total to date?

The pix of the bottle mic showed a flight case the other one did not. What am I missing?

It is cheaper without a flight case. If you all want one...Maybe another $5.00 to $7.00 or so. I can find out...

Paul G

11-30-2009, 01:36 PM

It is cheaper without a flight case. If you all want one...Maybe another $5.00 to $7.00 or so. I can find out...

Thanks Alan. I'd prefer the fight case but it's not a deal breaker.

Paul

SemolinaPilchard

12-03-2009, 10:30 PM

We keep going in circles. I was advocating to move this GB along three months ago and here we are still at the starting line.

Chinese mics...you can find the specs all over the internet. There are hundreds of pages on tens of websites devoted to Chinese LDC mics. Do a search. At this price range they are all basically the same or very similar. I'm hoping Mr Haytt picked the best sounding ones he had access to and will give us a price that works best for both him and us. What else is there to be said?

What is the mechanism by which we officially "sign up"? I will pony up the bucks today for two mics if Mr hayatt tells me where to send it.

Lets go!

Duakaria73

12-04-2009, 12:24 AM

i might be interested just to get some stock numbers on the lude so i can measure my improvement later on

Paul G

12-04-2009, 02:21 AM

What is the mechanism by which we officially "sign up"? I will pony up the bucks today for two mics if Mr hayatt tells me where to send it.
Lets go!

Here's where you can sign up:

http://micgroupbuy.eventbrite.com/

Alan Hyatt

12-04-2009, 03:27 AM

Guys,

I would hate any of you to put in any money right now as there is no indication of the quantity. Without that, there could be no Group Buy. If we can think of a way to find out how many want to order, then that will assist all of us so none of us waste time or money.

If no one can think of a way to do that, than I will ask everyone of you to e-mail me at alan@pmiaudio.com with your name, phone number and how many you want. They are $150.00 each....All you have to do is pay for the shipping from PMI to your door via FedEx Ground of UPS...whatever that cost will be depending on your zone.

This is a very good microphone. At the end of the day I am sure someone will hate it, because that is how things are...but in a decent room on a decent mic amp, the mic really sounds quite nice...warm, airy and not boomy.

I am open for comments, but before anyone ponies up money, I have to tell you I can do this for 50 mics...So we need a way to find out how many we are in for first. Then the factory will build them on my say so without any money, but I will ask for at least a deposit of 50% at that time...but time won't be wasted as the build would start. We also have to decide the color of the body and the grille...and if you all want a name on it or not.

Ok, let's see what happens.

hargerst

12-04-2009, 03:39 AM

I'm in for a pair. Gold and black is fine, but gray (or chrome) and black is also fine.

Paul G

12-04-2009, 04:05 AM

So we need a way to find out how many we are in for first.
I think we're at about 50 now.

http://micgroupbuy.eventbrite.com/

Where's caotico? He set this page up.

Paul

I'm with Harvey, gold and black.

SemolinaPilchard

12-04-2009, 05:21 AM

stettoman

12-04-2009, 01:36 PM

If you'd seen what passess for my "studio", you'd know that appearance means nothing to me either--I simply need quality performance and judging by the SP and Meek mics I already own, I trust Alan's ear and eye for durability.

I signed on for two a while ago.

Alan Hyatt

12-04-2009, 04:53 PM

I just signed up for two mics. That put the total count at 51.

I don't care what color they are or what name is on them. Just that they function as they are supposed to and the sound is consistent from one mic to the next are my concerns.

OK, when do they get here?

One of the issues with capsules in South China is the way the diaphragms are tensioned. Most are tensioned in a jig, then the outer ring is screwed on to the plate. Consistency is not as good as when the diaphragm is tensioned then glued to the ring. Most Southern China capsules are not glued.

While sonic quality is not impaired by this method, there is less consistency between capsules. I am not saying that they are horribly out, but they may be measurable difference if you buy pairs, and I will not mislead you to think they are matched or closely matched when they are not. I make no guarantee of this.

If anyone changes their mind...please remove yourself from the list, or let me know.

I do not know what happened to Catico, so maybe we are on our own.

Mike Raphone

12-04-2009, 05:51 PM

Actually, it is based more on the older Neumann M7 cap.... It does sound pretty nice.

Does this mean that this mic does not have the typical large high frequency peak of Chinese mics with K-67 style capsules?

hargerst

12-04-2009, 06:16 PM

When I think of multi-pattern tube mics, I don't think in terms of matched stereo pairs; I think of them primarily as vocal mics. In this case, I'm thinking that some minor inconsistencies will probably work to my advantage, since it adds a possible second flavor.

Paul G

12-04-2009, 10:49 PM

I do not know what happened to Catico, so maybe we are on our own.
I sent him a PM but have not heard back.

stettoman

12-05-2009, 02:39 PM

"...I don't think in terms of matched stereo pairs..."

The thought never crossed my mind either. I have plenty of matched pairs and am happy with them.

I want two of these for more devious reasons...

stettoman

12-05-2009, 02:43 PM

"...I do not know what happened to Catico..."

Perhaps he is off to Tahiti or Grand Cayman in search of the elusive global warming...From what I hear no one as far south as Houston still has any...

MSR74

12-05-2009, 02:49 PM

Is it possible to have tohe name silk screened instead of engraved. I'm assuming that financially this would also make more sense since I would think engraving a mic would be less cost effective.

The only reason I ask is for the modder's, we can refinish the mics without having to deal with engraved lettering, if we so choose.

Thanks again Alan for all of your hard work in getting this going.

It still boggles my mind why more people are not taking advantage of this deal.

I'm in for one on the evenbrite site.

Thanks,
Mick

Alan Hyatt

12-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Alan Hyatt

12-06-2009, 06:58 PM

Does this mean that this mic does not have the typical large high frequency peak of Chinese mics with K-67 style capsules?

Mike,

For some reason, most tube mics do not have that peak, and this mic is not overly bright...it is really pretty neutral outside of the flavor of the tube.

hargerst

12-06-2009, 07:11 PM

Is it possible to have the name silk screened instead of engraved. I'm assuming that financially this would also make more sense since I would think engraving a mic would be less cost effective.

The only reason I ask is for the modder's, we can refinish the mics without having to deal with engraved lettering, if we so choose.
Why put any name on it? Leave it without any name on it and tell your clients it's custom made for you and costs $5,000.

Paul G

12-06-2009, 07:24 PM

Why put any name on it? Leave it without any name on it and tell your clients it's custom made for you and costs $5,000.

I like this idea! LOL

Of course we could always just put a model number on it and I could use a Dymo label maker for the brand name. :-)

chris carter

12-06-2009, 09:52 PM

Mike Raphone

12-07-2009, 08:12 PM

I agree the mic should be just plain silver or nickel. It's classic.

I would also like to appeal to everyone to NOT get a lollipop model. Lollipop capsules are a beautiful design for mics that have INTERCHANGEABLE CAPSULES (i.e. Neumann CMV3 and CMV563, Blue Bottle), and just a silly affectation on a mic with a fixed capsule.

I'll certainly pay a little extra for a case.

Finally, I would like to suggest the name BIG KAHUNA after Alan Hyatt's title on this forum.

-MR

Alan Hyatt

12-07-2009, 10:21 PM

I would vote for:

1) plain satin/nickle color.
2) NO name, NO model number, NO nothing.
3) The case! - good lord the last thing I need is a mic without a case! If it's only $5, that's a hell of a lot cheaper and more convenient than having to go buy one ourselves. I can't stand mics without cases. Cardboard holds up like, well, CARDBOARD over the years.

Alan, the description of this mic is kind of scattered across posts.
Could you summarize the specs?
What tube is inside?
Is this variable pattern from the power supply or from the body switch?
What IS the body switch?
Do you have a frequency response graph? (while it doesn't determine what a mic sounds like, it will give a hint)
Transformer or transformerless?

Specs were put up several posts ago by me
The tube is a stock Chinese 12AX7...6072 or other will work
Nine pattern selectable(from external supply) with pad and hi-pass switch(on mic)
All I have is the specs I put up(No graphs)
The mic is a tube so it is transformer

Black/Nickel is fine...No name and I will ask how much the flight case is.

Hope that helps....

Paul G

12-07-2009, 10:50 PM

Thanks Alan. Works for me.

hargerst

12-07-2009, 11:06 PM

Works for me, too.

Michael Joly

12-08-2009, 08:26 AM

Does this mean that this mic does not have the typical large high frequency peak of Chinese mics with K-67 style capsules?

Any mic using a K67-type capsule, whether FET or tube, is going to have an 8kz peak if the circuit following it is a flat response type - as is found in all of the Chinese tube mics I'm aware of. Neumann designed the K67 capsule this way intentionally (http://mixguides.com/microphones/vintage_products/audio_vintage_microphones_part_2/ ) to form one half of an acoustical pre-emphasis / electronic de-emphasis system that was used in the U 67 and U87 in order to provide increased headroom, sibilance reduction and control of timbre-balance. This capsule design has been faithfully copied by Chinese manufacturers but the de-emphasis circuit has been eliminated. btw, I was trying to find that link to the gearslutz tube mic group buy thread in a previous post of mine - can't seem to find it.

hargerst

12-08-2009, 07:09 PM

Apparently, even Neumann eliminated the electronic de-emphasis system in the U87ai.

Brent Casey

12-09-2009, 12:34 AM

Any mic using a K67-type capsule, whether FET or tube, is going to have an 8kz peak if the circuit following it is a flat response type - as is found in all of the Chinese tube mics I'm aware of. Neumann designed the K67 capsule this way intentionally (http://mixguides.com/microphones/vintage_products/audio_vintage_microphones_part_2/ ) to form one half of an acoustical pre-emphasis / electronic de-emphasis system that was used in the U 67 and U87 in order to provide increased headroom, sibilance reduction and control of timbre-balance. This capsule design has been faithfully copied by Chinese manufacturers but the de-emphasis circuit has been eliminated. btw, I was trying to find that link to the gearslutz tube mic group buy thread in a previous post of mine - can't seem to find it.

Hello Michael,

As a friend of the late Stephen Paul, whose writings you are quoting, I can tell you that he had a very solid understanding of the underlying physics governing capacitor microphone transducers - particularly, large capsule mics seemed to intrigue him the most. He wrote that outstanding series of Mix articles in order to provide the layman with a basic understanding of how those wonderful vintage microphones do what they do. I think it's nice that you are excited about discovering how microphones work, but I want to address some of your statements in order that visitors to our forum are presented with facts.
First of all, not all mics made in China which employ some variant of the K67 style backplates lack what you refer to as a "de-emphasis circuit". Several brands that I know of feature circuitry of this type. The purveyors of these brands may not be aware of this fact, since the circuitry in their mic is a copy of another circuit - none of which is actually designed or even understood by them perhaps, but it is there just the same.
Secondly, there are microphone brands who manufacture in China and have people on staff who know this stuff very well. I know quite a few of them myself. It's a small industry. Personally speaking, I can't remember exactly what it was that tipped me off about the inherent peakiness of k67 capsules way back when, but I think it had something to do with the GIANT PEAKS showing up in tracks and HF response plots. But knowing is only half the battle. Being able to actually DO something about it is the other half. As you are finding out, there is much more to this than ripping out grill mesh and swapping components, which may not help at all.
Also, not all of the European microphones with K67 style capsules feature the high frequency compensation circuitry to which you are alluding. There are even respected people in our field who go so far as to describe the sound of these mics as "sexy" and "emotional".
Regarding your statement that all mics with this style of capsule "will have" an 8kHz peak if the circuitry is linear - this is not the case, but I know what you are trying to say: Capsules of this type, in general, "will have" frequency peaks in the upper end of their overall response. It doesn't always happen at 8kHz though.
Finally: just because most people don't go around on audio forums talking of frequency peaks in a popular style of transducer, doesn't mean that they aren't aware of such things. Personally I'd just as soon discuss this type of thing with you offline, since this seems a bit contentious...but, I think it is quite likely that you are here to promote yourself and what you refer to as "your" capsule, which is based on the K47. This being the case, I think it is more polite to either start your own forum for such purposes, go try to sell on GS where you seem to have quite a following, or at least ASK US in advance if it's ok for you to push your competing products on our company's forum. Right now, what you're doing is a bit more surreptitious and it seems like you're attempting to maintain an air of plausible deniability. That's not cool. Maybe you can try to interface with us some other way here, eh? We'd appreciate that.

Regards,

Brent Casey
Engineering and Design
PMI Audio Group