B & C series updates, new E & CS series - help!

[TimMillea]

I came to this forum because I am in the stages of setting up my own first home studio in Turkey (after 20 years+ of live jazz recording in the UK) and needed clarification of a few points before importing the mics 'blind' (or should that be 'deaf'). I must have read review of Studio Projects mics available on the net, many of them several times in different places, along with a whole load of opinion as is the net's wont. As ever in the audio world, there is much subjective contradiction and I have no means of testing any of these mics before buying short of flying to another continent.

Firstly, the spec of the B1 (and close behind it, the B3) appears better than of the C1 (and C3) - 3 micron vs 6 micron diaphragm, s/n ratio 82dB vs 77bB, 2 point pad (-10 & -20dB) bass cut (150Hz & 75Hz) vs 1 each on the C1/3. To my mind, that 3 micron diaphragm thickness should make a huge difference to smoothness of response at frequencies with half-wavelengths less than its 1" diameter, i.e. above 6.5Khz, but especially so at double and higher this frequency. And you just can't buy low noise noise, well not after the event anyway, and 5dB less source noise is practically priceless in the high-resolution digital domain. I can understand why the B1/3 are cheaper - because they are much lighter and smaller to ship from China. These differences should have no effect upon sonic performance. Perhaps the internal components are cheaper too, but the B1/3 specs appear to be at odds with their market position.

That said, the pro-audio press practically takes for read that the C-series is superior to the B-series and devotes its energy to justifying this view with all sorts of subjective (pretentious) hyperbolae and statistically and scientifically meaningless anecdotes. Mmmm. In the wider, wilder net, opinion is much more evenly divided along the lines of 'I love/hate the produce I bought, but I don't really have anything to compare it with'. Mmmm.

Would a PMI representative care to comment on the apparent superiority of spec of the B series over the C series?

Secondly, reading through these forums I quickly learned that the entire B and C series internals will be updated "in 2006" and that they will be joined by a new top-end and esoteric E series and a range positioned between C and E called the CS (CE surely?) series, the latter both originally slated for early 2005. By extrapolation, the E series will be 4 times the size, weight and price of the B series, have 12 micron thickness diaphragms and will have an exceptional ability to convey sheer joy, disembodiment, ecstasy and the deep meaning of life to members of the audio press, certainly much more so than to we mere mortals or that their specifications can explain.

When will the B & C series be updated? Are these updates worth waiting for?

Finally it comes down to this. I have read so many glowing reviews about the C1. How do/will the B1 and B3 compare to it now and after the updates? A pair of B3s - very low noise, 1" diameter, 3 micron balanced, multi-pattern transducers - is an attractive purchase right now. Why should I pay more for C3s or wait for updated models?

Yours in anticipation and exhaustion.

Tim.

[Alan Hyatt]

All large capsule solid-state mics got an increase in capsule voltage. This results higher sensitivity and S/N. A side benefit has been the increased low-mid and low end response. The sound is much more rounded out as a result.

Every mic EXCEPT for the TB1 got a coupling capacitor change in the high impedance section. This for sonic purposes. The reason the TB1 did not get a new capacitor is because it never had one to begin with - the capsule just connects straight into the grid of the triode.

All models have new look - busy nomenclature has been replaced with a stylish tri-color SP emblem.

All large capsule models feature redesigned headgrille with a new style of mesh which is much heavier duty than the old stuff.

Internal components have been upgrade as well.


C1, C3, B1, C4: All of these mics now feature two discrete three-way switches, which can be used to select two levels of pad (-10dB & -20dB) and two high-pass filter frequencies (75Hz & 150Hz). For the cardioid-only mics, this means that there are now a total of nine different operating modes, as opposed to three. The C3 now has a total of 27 possible operating modes.

Printed specs do not mean one mic is better than another. Room conditions, talent, engineer, and acoustics make the difference. C Series is different than the B Series. Different thickness mylar and electronics so there is a tone difference. Some voices sound better on C Series and vice versa.

All of these changes are done. It will be about three months before we ship them. This is why we are out of so many of our models and the mics are hard to come by right now.

We will get some photo's up soon...

[Alan Hyatt]

Here's a photo of the new mics
http://www.rocknmotion.com/pmi/Dual_Alt_sm.jpg

[Ted Perlman]

C1, C3, B1, C4: All of these mics now feature two discrete three-way switches, which can be used to select two levels of pad (-10dB & -20dB) and two high-pass filter frequencies (75Hz & 150Hz). For the cardioid-only mics, this means that there are now a total of nine different operating modes, as opposed to three. The C3 now has a total of 27 possible operating modes

Will the option to add these switches to our current models be available to users, or does it not make sense considering the extremely reasonable cost of the Studio Projects series of mics?

Also - I have an excellent and expensive Brauner Phantom V mic that has a -10db rolloff switch. I swear I can hear a difference between the voice quality without the pad (excellent) and with the pad engaged (very good, but not so excellent :-). Are the pads in your new mics accurate and transparent?

[hargerst]

Will the option to add these switches to our current models be available to users, or does it not make sense considering the extremely reasonable cost of the Studio Projects series of mics?

Also - I have an excellent and expensive Brauner Phantom V mic that has a -10db rolloff switch. I swear I can hear a difference between the voice quality without the pad (excellent) and with the pad engaged (very good, but not so excellent :-). Are the pads in your new mics accurate and transparent?
Ted, I doubt very much if the pads can be retrofitted to older versions, but I'll bet Alan will make you some sort of accomodation on trade ins for the newer models. He can probably sell your old mics on eBay and clean up on them as "collectors items".

Most pads DO change the response of a condenser mic, since they're adjusting the capacitance of the capsule to lower the level. I believe Stephan Paul had figured a way around this and planned it include it in his new mic. I don't know if Brent took advantage of this new technique for the new Studio Projects stuff.

[rasta]

Damn!!!!! I just bought a Studio Projects C3 1 minute ago, and now you are telling me that there’s all ready a better version of it…. When will this new version be available?

[Gilliland]

Alan, it seems to me that at least some of these changes would be fairly easy to retrofit into the older models, at least for those of us who have reasonable soldering skills. Any chance that you'd be willing to provide some notes on exactly which components you upgraded?

Obviously, we can't easily add a switch when the original case doesn't have room for it, but replacing a coupling capacitor wouldn't be difficult. Depending on how you've accomplished it, it might also be possible for us to raise the capsule voltage. And you mention "other internal components" as well - perhaps some of these would be easy to place into the existing circuit boards?

It would be a fun and useful project for those of us who have invested in the original SP microphones.

[Alan Hyatt]

Actully it would be quite difficult to add these on. Brent may be able to suggest something, but you would have to add a PC board and the difficulty may be too much.

As for time, my guess is the new C Series will ship in 90 days or so. The B Series will ship sooner.

Like everything else folks, progress is always moving on. We are always looking for ways to improve our products. After six years, it was time to freshen up the old line a bit....

We still have stock of the old models and are selling them out to all our dealers. No one will go wrong getting the current C1, C3, T3, or other C Series product. One thing no one asked.....Yes, the prices are going up! They will go up a bit as a result of the improved quality and new shock mount. We have really elevated the series and as a result, the prices go up as well. C1 will move from 199.99 to about $249.99.

[Gilliland]

Actully it would be quite difficult to add these on. Brent may be able to suggest something, but you would have to add a PC board and the difficulty may be too much.
If it would require adding or replacing a PC board, then it may not be a workable idea. But if some of the changes are simply component swaps that don't change the actual circuitry, then that should be pretty workable.

Changing the coupling capacitor shouldn't be difficult, should it? I haven't looked carefully at the original circuits, but sometimes you can get a considerable improvement by simply replacing one component with a better or more appropriate one. Often the original component may have been chosen on the basis of low cost, while a somewhat more expensive component may provide quite a bit of improvement in some cases.

A great example of this is the improvements that Scott Dorsey suggested for the Oktava MK012 microphones in Recording magazing a few years ago. He simply replaced a couple of resistors to improve the frequency response, and replaced an FET to provide better linearity. He made a few other changes as well, but those were the biggies. (Some of the other changes that he proposed were more for reliability than for improvements in audio quality.)

If Brent could chime in, that would be great. I'm not suggesting that it would or should be possible to completely update these mics to the "new improved" versions, but that perhaps there's a way to bring them part way along. In any event, it would be great to hear his thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

[SP-R0x]

Hello! :)

What`s going to be the major difference between the old C1 and the new one ?

[Alan Hyatt]

Hello! :)

What`s going to be the major difference between the old C1 and the new one ?

Well other than looks and shock mount...10db more output, so it is much hotter. It is always lower noise, and fuller sound.

A bit more detailed and more airy. It smoothed out quite a bit.

[SP-R0x]

:eek: I just got the "old" C1. :(

[Alan Hyatt]

:eek: I just got the "old" C1. :(

Hey, great mic...Less money. The new C1 will probably be about $250.00. We can always work a deal out for you by trading in your old or recently new models.

[J.S.]

:eek: I just bought a c1 but I guess I can get this one too. I don't think it should be that much of a difference other than the switch.

[SP-R0x]

Hey, great mic...Less money. The new C1 will probably be about $250.00. We can always work a deal out for you by trading in your old or recently new models.

My C1 was $237.00, because it has metal shock mount. :D I have it a week. :)

[Alan Hyatt]

My C1 was $237.00, because it has metal shock mount. :D I have it a week. :)

They all come with the metal shockmount. We see street price about $199.99 for the C1....

[Alan Hyatt]

:eek: I just bought a c1 but I guess I can get this one too. I don't think it should be that much of a difference other than the switch.

It is much more than just a switch....

[Iamone]

How long until the new versions will be available from distributers? I'll be starting a recording project in august, and would like to use the B3 or C1 for a major part of the recording.

[Alan Hyatt]

Well we should be getting the first of the B1 and B3's in five weeks. The others, maybe 8 weeks off.

We have had some issues where we rejected a lot of new bodies. They need some time to get them right.

[Tomer1]

Here's a photo of the new mics
http://www.rocknmotion.com/pmi/Dual_Alt_sm.jpg

is it possible to reupload these? link is broken...


Is the new Cs1 the new upgraded C1 you were talking about? or is that a completly different mic?

[Reid Mason]

This should give you a pretty good idea.

http://www.pmiaudio.com/images/newsletter/B1_final.jpghttp://www.pmiaudio.com/images/newsletter/c3_final.jpg http://www.pmiaudio.com/images/newsletter/tb1_final.jpg http://www.pmiaudio.com/images/newsletter/lsd2_final.jpg

[Reid Mason]

Here are a couple more showing mics in the new mount. As you can see, the mount is modular, and with the accessories can be configured for all types of multiple microphone uses.

http://www.pmiaudio.com/images/newsletter/C1_mount.jpg http://www.pmiaudio.com/images/newsletter/Dual_sm.jpg

[earlwgreen]

GREAT look! I'm still soooo happy with my TB1. I can't wait to get my room treated and then really get busy tracking.

I really like how these mics look. Streamlined and very chic. The Logo looks much nicer than the old design.

GOOD JOB guys.

Will the ribbons be RCA style? hint...hint... :D That will be my next mic purchase.

[Tomer1]

Sweet... :D


What about the clasic shockmount,will it still be part of the package?

[Reid Mason]

Sweet... :D


What about the clasic shockmount,will it still be part of the package?

The new shock mount (shown above) will ship with all C Series mics. B Series mics will continue to ship with their existing mounts.

[mhelin]

I haven't opened my C1 but I assume that the old capacitor was polyester and the new one polypropylene (as polystyrene caps are becoming difficult to source). How about the capsule voltage supply in old C1, is there a DC/DC converter circuit or is it supplied by the pure phantom voltage? If there is an existing DC/DC converter it would be possible to modify it by adding or changing couple of components to get larger voltage out of it.

How about the capsules in the new versions, still the same of modified for higher voltage? What I really liked to see in Studio Projects (or Joemeek) microphones is a chinese capsule *without* the high frequency / presence boost (and instead giving a midrange boost). I just got the Violet Black Knight and it's excellent mic must I say. It doesn't sound 'chinese' (or Neumann) at all. Btw. the BK is actually internally the same mic as the BLUE Baby Bottle used to be though the body is different. The capsule is dual diaphragm CK12 (vs. Neumann) style (only the front diaphragm is coated and used therefore - it's cardioid only mic). Also the KEL HM-1 is similar sound mic as the Violet. Some say also that SP T3 sounds a little bit different than most Chinese mics, more like the AKG C12. However, the Violet (like KEL) has a small boost @ 2kHz (T3 between 2 and 5 kHz) whereas C12 (or Elam M250/251) a small dip at same frequency.

[hargerst]

Some say also that SP T3 sounds a little bit different than most Chinese mics, more like the AKG C12. However, the Violet (like KEL) has a small boost @ 2kHz (T3 between 2 and 5 kHz) whereas C12 (or Elam M250/251) a small dip at same frequency.
I think I'm the "some" you're talking about. When I made my comments about the T3 being similar, I meant that the T3 has a "sheen" or "airy" quality that reminds me of what makes the C12 such a desirable mic for some voices.

The T3 does indeed "sound different than most Chinese mics". Whether that's by accident or intent is of little consequence to me - it is what it is, and I like it.

[Ausrock]

Harvey,

From your experience, is there any one pre that seems to suit the T3 more than other pre's or is the choice of pre still somewhat dependant on the sound source?

Cheers,

ChrisO :cool:

[hargerst]

Alex has been running the T3 either thru the board, thru the Millenia Media SST-1, or thru the Great River MP-2NV. It sounds pretty similar to me thru all 3 preamps, so I'd hafta say it's primarily source-dependent.

[earlwgreen]

Hey, I just noticed you guys now show the new designed mics on the SP site. They look great.

Question, were there any changes to the TB1? Just curious. Mine sounds wonderful but I'd like to know.

Thanks.

Earl